code:

---

Session Start: Sun Sep 26 22:02:21 2004
Session Ident: #audiocourses
* Now talking in #audiocourses
* Topic is 'There are fewer more distressing sights than that Of an Englishman in a baseball cap'
* Set by Audiocourses on Sun Sep 26 20:14:31
<zk> hi
<aik> hi everybody
<Rico`> hi everyone
<ben_m> hi
<Audiocourses> evening
<Audiocourses> welcome zk
<zk> thanx
<zk> hi everyone
<ben_m> chris - what inspired the 'topic'?
<Rico`> hello there
<ben_m> hi zk
<Rico`> yes i would like to know that aswell
<Audiocourses> ben, was chatting earlier with someone.
<Audiocourses> Have you heard of The Libertines?
<ben_m> yeah
<Audiocourses> It's a line from Time For Heroes
<ben_m> ah right
<Rico`> strange coz i'm english and i have a baseball cap on, i'm busy looking for spy cameras ;)
<Audiocourses> Rico, oh no man!
<Rico`> hehe
<Audiocourses> May I ask what inspired you to wear such a silly hat?
<Audiocourses> :)
<Rico`> lol my silly hair i would have to say
<Audiocourses> Ah, a cloaking device then.
<Rico`> hehe
<Audiocourses> Does it have MIDI on it?
<Rico`> lol not last time i checked
<Audiocourses> Wouldn't interest me then lol
<Audiocourses> See what you've missed zk?
<aik> you seem to be in good form today guys
<zk> yes, i have to say that im from spain and mi english is not very good
<zk> but I try to follow this chat
<Audiocourses> zk, it is important you stop us to explain, ok.
<zk> ok, thanx
<Audiocourses> Now then
<Audiocourses> Ben, you get any work this week from em?
<ben_m> not when i last looked a few hours ago
<ben_m> let me check now
<Rico`> not from me yet, i'm still working on it, only a few questions to go
<Audiocourses> I have to say I am dissapointed this week.
<Audiocourses> Only Rico has posted his answers.
<zk> sorry, only one thing
<zk> im a mac user, and it seems all the downloads are for pc
<Rico`> and that was only this afternoon
<Audiocourses> zk, what downloads?
<zk> The fun time game, for exemple, is an exe aplication
<Audiocourses> ah yes, good point.
<Audiocourses> Maybe there is a mac version around, i'll check.
<zk> there is no problem with mp3
<Audiocourses> However, what is more important is the answers to the questions.
<zk> ok
<Audiocourses> For which downloads are not needed.
<zk> yes, i know
<aik> i was stuggling whether I should post the answers right now and be in time or give myself a wee bit longer because I want to be able to answer all questions in a row without having to look for anything. That means that I sometimes have to dig deeper, but I'm not learning anything by just writing of what others wrote. I will be faster soon, because I'm getting a better understanding of things. Does that make any sense for you
<Audiocourses> It does
<Audiocourses> however I would say the time frames are important.
<Audiocourses> by that i mean you have to feel pressured to post
<Audiocourses> each week.
<Audiocourses> The system works this way.
<Audiocourses> It is essential a topic is complete by each workshop.
<aik> all right
<aik> each week
<Audiocourses> We have "built in" time near the exams
<Audiocourses> so you can revise and go deeper.
<Audiocourses> if you check the schedule you will see "reading weeks"
<aik> by the way i was missing feedback on the last week questions
<Audiocourses> this is revision time to go back and cover areas that have been missed
<aik> i got some from you though, ben
<Audiocourses> aik..
<ben_m> yeah i was a bit late with though aik so apologies
<Audiocourses> generally we only feedback where there are errors
<Audiocourses> if there is no feedback it is generally a good thing.
<Audiocourses> because it means the topics have been covered fairly well.
<Audiocourses> when there are glaring ommissions, don;t worry you will know.
<Audiocourses> on the other hand if you find you are really unsure about something, ask for feedback on it.
<Audiocourses> I'd rather encourage you all to feedback with each other also.
* aik has quit IRC (Ping timeout)
<Audiocourses> You know?
* aik has joined #audiocourses
<Rico`> yes it would be helpful to discuss answers with others
<Audiocourses> What we have done in the passed which works really well is to raise any problems with the weeks questions in the following workshop.
<aik> sorry I just got disconnected there
<Audiocourses> so it is obvisouly paramount that answers are up before the workshop.
<Audiocourses> no worries aik
<Audiocourses> To give an example (sorry rico)
<Audiocourses> I only have yours to go on...
<Rico`> no problem
<Audiocourses> What is a 'track sheet' used for?
<Audiocourses> rico answered this as such
<Audiocourses> A 'track sheet' is a sheet of paper used to record which instrument has been recorded on each track. Also known as a track log or track assignment sheet.
<Audiocourses> Now lets say 4 people had answered, we would have a greater amount of depth here..
<Audiocourses> 4 peoples thoughts..
<Audiocourses> which can only be a good thing.
<Audiocourses> in this case rico was a little "lean"
<Audiocourses> there far more uses for a track sheet..
<Audiocourses> What I would like to encourage is more interaction..
<Audiocourses> so if rico posts first... and then say you aik posts after... rico may post again noting some things he perhaps missed out, or perhaps disagrees with..
<Audiocourses> you know?
<aik> You are right. I see your point
<Rico`> i see
<Audiocourses> I understand it requires more of your time.
<Audiocourses> but I also understand it yields a deeper learning. :)
<Audiocourses> You can see this has started to take place with the listening excersise.
<Rico`> yes i found the other students posts very helpful
<ben_m> excuse me for 2 minutes
<aik> At this place i want to say that Im really enjoying studying and I already know so much more then I did a couple of weeks ago. I don't mind spending al the time I possibly can. Work is sometimes a very disturbing factor
* iNSTiNCT2765 has joined #audiocourses
<Audiocourses> That's great aik!!!!!!
<Audiocourses> :))
<Audiocourses> hi instinct
<Rico`> hi there instinct
<iNSTiNCT2765> hey, weird...me and sean are in audiocourses aswell but no none else is in there so i tried the internet version and here u guys are...
<Audiocourses> Guys may I introduce instinct.. he is already qualified in C&G, he took it last cohort.
<Audiocourses> instinct in on mirc
<iNSTiNCT2765> yeah on mirc its just me and sean
<Audiocourses> send him over
<Audiocourses> I'm on mirc version here
<iNSTiNCT2765> i'll try switchin servers...his net version doesnt work so i'll try to get him to switch servers too
<Audiocourses> good man
<Audiocourses> guys you might want to picks insticks brains soon, as he has done the course you are now taking.
<Audiocourses> This year he is takng the digital audio module.
<Rico`> i'm sure we will in the weeks to come:)
<Audiocourses> shall i mention a couple other areas regarding the questions?
* iNSTiNCT-DK has joined #audiocourses
<iNSTiNCT-DK> there u go..
<aik> yes please
<iNSTiNCT-DK> hope sean gets my instructions
<Rico`> please do
* iNSTiNCT2765 has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer)
<Audiocourses> What type of microphone(s) could you use? (for cymbals)
<Audiocourses> Now when they ask "type", what do you think they mean?
<Audiocourses> anyone?
<aik> large or small diaphragm condensors
<Rico`> aah, i guess they mean type as in condensor
<aik> for the cymbals I mean
<Audiocourses> yes they do mean condensor as the type
<Rico`> not the make
<aik> by type I assume it would be condensors, dynamic or rfibbon mics
<Audiocourses> why would a condensor be good for cymbals?
<Audiocourses> yes aik
<aik> condensors are more sensitive
<aik> you can't say that, can you
<Audiocourses> they are, in many varieties of sensitivity
<Audiocourses> what is it about cymbals though?
<Audiocourses> what is it asking you to understand?
<zk> more frecuency range
<Audiocourses> yes zk much more
<aik> they have very high frequencies
<Audiocourses> yes aik good
<Audiocourses> they have a frequency response which is often "outside" the range of some dynamic mics
<Audiocourses> or to put it better: A dynamic mic generally has less HF response
<Audiocourses> than a condensor microphone.
<Audiocourses> get it?
<Rico`> got it
<aik> but a better LF response
<Audiocourses> aik not always.
<Audiocourses> they are not opposites
<aik> but they are more robust to handle SPL
<Audiocourses> a condensor mic (a good one) can have a LF response just as good as a dynamic mic.
<Audiocourses> aik robust definately (don't confuse robustness and frequency though)
<aik> No that's true, I know
<Audiocourses> ok
<Audiocourses> next one: How is a record player connected to a mixing console?
<Audiocourses> instinct feel free to jump in also :)
<aik> I would say via line input
<Audiocourses> anyone have anything else on this?
<Rico`> i read that some record players need to have a pre-amp
<Audiocourses> rico good
<Rico`> to boost the signal
<iNSTiNCT-DK> well the signal from the record player needs to be brought up to a line level before it can be plugged into the mixer
<Audiocourses> wy is that...?
<Audiocourses> yes it does
<Audiocourses> it also needs something else.
<Audiocourses> which is what the question is seeking
<iNSTiNCT-DK> a reverse RIAA EQ curve
<Audiocourses> instinct!!!
<Audiocourses> great.
<aik> What on earth is that????
<Audiocourses> lol
<Rico`> beat me to it aik
<iNSTiNCT-DK> go ahead and take one chris ;)
<Audiocourses> ok
<Audiocourses> because of the nature (phyics) of vinyl
<Audiocourses> bass has to be filtered out by the cutting lathe.
<Audiocourses> at the factory
<Audiocourses> because it would make the groove too big and bouncy...
<Audiocourses> so
<Audiocourses> an EQ filter
<Audiocourses> is applied to the input when cutting the vinyl
<Audiocourses> which removes the bass as a rate of 6dB er octave.
<Audiocourses> 6dB/octave
<Audiocourses> 6dB = half as much gain
<Audiocourses> the pivot point is around 1Khz
<Audiocourses> so above that point the gain si increased.
<Audiocourses> below it is reduced
<Audiocourses> this make the cutting more efficient
<Audiocourses> naturally if you played this back without one of Insticks filters, it would sound really "toppy" and without "bottom"...
<Audiocourses> so a reverse EQ curve is placed inline..
<aik> so you need a device to reverse that to equal that out again
<Audiocourses> aik yes, great.
<Audiocourses> so, you'd wanna go and dig deeper into this concept.
<Audiocourses> right?
<aik> indeed
<Audiocourses> when you buy a record deck preamp, it has one built in.
<Rico`> i think i would need to yes
<Audiocourses> so you were correct rico, but not enough detail.
<Rico`> got it
<Audiocourses> zk how are you ?
<Audiocourses> tutto bene?
<zk> well, from now
<Audiocourses> another one
<Audiocourses> Describe the term 'foldback'?
<Audiocourses> More importantly how is foldback achieved from a mixing desk?
<aik> Foldback is feeding a monitor mixdown to the musician’s headphones, to enable them to hear each other and e.g. the basic tracks while recording new material
<Audiocourses> yes aik.
<ben_m> what about in non studio situations?
<Audiocourses> and the second bit anyone?
<iNSTiNCT-DK> hmm... on stage during performance
<aik> Foldback is fed from one of the auxileries from the mixing desk
<Audiocourses> which one?
<Audiocourses> or should I say which "type"?
<aik> send
<Rico`> hmm just realised i missed off question 6, explain how foldback setup
<Audiocourses> which type of "send" lol
<ben_m> aik - 2 types of send
<ben_m> which one? :)
<aik> ?
<Audiocourses> ben wanna?
<ben_m> ok
<Audiocourses> covering live also>
<ben_m> sure
<Audiocourses> ta
<ben_m> ok, firstly aux sends are a way of sending signals from the desk to other sources
<ben_m> usually either foldback (headphones, stage monitors) or effects (reverb etc)
<ben_m> although both foldback and effects are sent from aux sends there is a difference between the optimal way to send to each
<ben_m> for instance
<ben_m> lets say you are mixing down a track
<ben_m> you have recorded a 12 bar guitar solo
<ben_m> but you decided in the mix to only use 8 bars and drop the level of the solo
<ben_m> when you drop the level of the guitar, with the fader, you would want the amount of signal going to the reverb unit to decrease also
<aik> Are you talking about PFL and AFL?
<ben_m> otherwise as you bring the fader down you would still be hearing the guitars 'wet' (i.e. reverb only signal)
<ben_m> aik - correct!
<ben_m> although not exactly pfl
<ben_m> pre-fade
<ben_m> pfl usually refers to a function to set the gain
<ben_m> anyhow
<ben_m> conversely
<ben_m> if you are giving a live musician foldback into his/her monitor
<ben_m> you will set the level to his/her taste
<ben_m> obviously you want this to be independent of what you are sending out of the main speakers
<ben_m> so if you turn the vocalist down through the main speakers you want the foldback level to stay the same
<ben_m> to achieve these 2 different configurations
<ben_m> we have 2 types of auz send
<ben_m> aux
<ben_m> pre-fade
<ben_m> and post fade (sometimes called after fade)
<ben_m> the names are pretty self explanatory
<ben_m> a pre-fade send is not affected by the position of the fader (great for foldback)
<ben_m> a post fade send IS affected by the position of the fader (good for effects)
<ben_m> so if you were asked how foldback would usually be send from the desk
<ben_m> your answer should point out that it would be sent from a pre fade aux send
<aik> you would say from a pre fade auxilery send
<ben_m> absolutely correct aik!
<ben_m> do you all follow that
<Rico`> yup
<aik> that should be the same in a non studio version then?
<Rico`> was typing that in my notes as aik said it
<ben_m> foldback is the same live & studio in terms of using pre-fade auz send
<ben_m> aux
<ben_m> however, when asked what foldback is
<ben_m> it is worthwile mentioning studio (headphones usually) and live (stage monitors)
<Audiocourses> great ben, also guys they (aux) are switchable on many desks.
<ben_m> sometimes foldback is called monitor mix
<aik>  switchable from pre to post?
<ben_m> many software sequencers also offer switchable pre/post fade sends
<ben_m> yes aik
<ben_m> often there may be a number of hardwired sends
<ben_m> and additional switchable sends
<ben_m> certainly on larger desks
<Audiocourses> yes ben, and also you may hear the term "monitor mix" used when talking about the output of your recorder, when still recording parts ( not mixing, a working mix if you like).
<Audiocourses> so that was good stuff
<Rico`> the pivot point is around 1Khz
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> so above that point the gain si increased.
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> below it is reduced
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> this make the cutting more efficient
<Rico`> the pivot point is around 1Khz
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> so above that point the gain si increased.
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> below it is reduced
<Rico`> <Audiocourses> this make the cutting more efficient
<Rico`> oops
<Rico`> sorry
<ben_m> hehe
<Audiocourses> hehe
<ben_m> deja vu
<Rico`> lol
<Audiocourses> thought i was in the matrix then
<ben_m> lol
<Rico`> hehehe
<Audiocourses> Now
<Audiocourses> let's have a chat about how to listen...
<aik> good
<Audiocourses> the practical did start to get underway slowely.
<Audiocourses> Have you found it difficult to hear things?
<Audiocourses> It can take a while to listen differently
<Rico`> i found it difficult yes, until i read the other posts
<aik> I found it difficult not to have references
<Audiocourses> aik, how do you mean?
<Rico`> once i had a reference i could hear it
<Audiocourses> once you knew what to listen for you mean?
<Rico`> yes once a few things were highlighted
<Audiocourses> rico, i understand, now the thing is we need you to become the guy who tells others what to listen for!
<Audiocourses> ya know?
<aik> I mean I would like to hear a recording with e.g. the guitar set up through DI or with a mic
<Rico`> ues i understand
<Rico`> yes
<Audiocourses> aik it doesn't work like that really.. unless you try it yourself.
<Audiocourses> and with so many digital models available, one can easily be confused with listen tests
<aik> I know it is a matter of training but you need to know what makes the difference in the sound don't you
<Audiocourses> firstly you need to be able to use words to describe what you hear
<Audiocourses> so yo can converse about it with your peers
<aik> I can see that
<Audiocourses> it's important to be able to use words in this way to describe a mix
<aik> But would it help me to find out how things are miked up, without having something to compare?
<Audiocourses> I wold like us to go on with this practical
<Audiocourses> aik yes.
<aik> ok, lets go on
<Audiocourses> the thing is with audio and mics, the sound is never the same..
<Audiocourses> you can get roughly a similar sound but so many variables come into play.
<Audiocourses> mic, room, player, instrument etc etc
<Audiocourses> you are better off being able to describe each sound first, and then try to achieve that.
<Audiocourses> so like in the future
<Audiocourses> you could be working on a track and think, "oh i remember that pink floyd guitar sound"
<Audiocourses> it was a kind of highly compressed, dryish round tone (or whatever)
<Audiocourses> it's a bit like colour recognition
<Audiocourses> you know what a green is..
<Audiocourses> so we go on to train our ears to recognise a hall sound... or a box sound.
<aik> yes but try to describe it to a blind. I get your point
<Audiocourses> aik you are not blind, you just have not listened this way before.
<Audiocourses> so do try to go on with this practical this week.
<Audiocourses> I drive my girlf crazy sometimes
<aik> I certainly will it's a bloody challange
<Audiocourses> we might be watching a film, a scary bit perhaps, and I'l be giggling, about the sound effects.
<Rico`> lol
<aik> :)
<Audiocourses> she says "what you laughing at, it's scary"
<Audiocourses> lol
<Audiocourses> film sound tracks are good practise
<Audiocourses> sit there with some headphones on, and make the picture black :)
<Audiocourses> see if you can detect the vocal reverbs
<Audiocourses> or the sound effects
<Audiocourses> You will have a sound effects practical soon, this will help I remember Instinct had mean drawn in to his teeth brushing.
<Audiocourses> last semester
<iNSTiNCT-DK> haha true that... the sound fx practical was fun to do
<Audiocourses> so, any big questions anyone have?
<Rico`> not at the moment
<aik> not at the moment. it was good to go into some of the questions
<Rico`> yeah
<aik> will we get some feed back on the classical ones as well?
<Audiocourses> when there are glaring bad points..
<aik> It just seems as if we are not getting all the details
<aik> I mean in our answers
<Audiocourses> you can never get "all the details"
<Audiocourses> there is no "correct" answer to be honest..
<Audiocourses> as long as you are in the zone, you will be fine.
<Audiocourses> the examiner will be looking for your ideas of the concept..
<aik> good to know, thanks
<Rico`> yes it seems that a lot of questions are individual preference
<Audiocourses> would you agree Instinct? having taken them?
<Audiocourses> or ben?
<iNSTiNCT-DK> about examiners looking for your own ideas and concepts? yes i do...
<ben_m> it may sound an obvious point but it is more important not to be wrong
<ben_m> as chris said being in the 'zone' is more important
<ben_m> showing your ability to think things through is very important
<ben_m> if you can show you have an understanding and your own views and opinions that is worth a lot
<iNSTiNCT-DK> if you can show you know the concepts or techniques using your own words and examples is better than just re-writting something you have read
<ben_m> exactly insinct
<iNSTiNCT-DK> u read my mind
<ben_m> ;)
<aik> makes perfectly sense to me
<Audiocourses> brb guys.. ben..
<ben_m> ok chris
<ben_m> after this first 2 weeks are you finding that you can answer the questions in a more 'exam style' manner?
<Rico`> yes i'm trying to answer like that, instead of on phrase answers
<Rico`> one
<ben_m> good rico
<aik> Getting there
<ben_m> as the course progresses you will find it easier to interpret the questions and decipher what the examiner is expecting from you
<aik> sounds good
<ben_m> a lot of times 20% of  the answer is in the question!
<ben_m> if that makes sense
<ben_m> like that example i cited to you aik on the forum this week
<aik> it does make sense
<Audiocourses> back
<Audiocourses> so this week what's the topics?
<Rico`> rt equipment 1
<Audiocourses> ah yes
<Rico`> mt synths 1
<Audiocourses> cool
<Audiocourses> big weeks
<aik> mt Synthezisers
<aik> onother one
<Audiocourses> they get ibgger and bigger :)
<aik> and we get wiser and wiser
<Audiocourses> :)
<Rico`> hehe
<Audiocourses> regarding next weeks LW, same time?
<aik> good for me
<Rico`> same here
<Audiocourses> zk?
<zk> LW?
<Audiocourses> sorry.. Live Workshop.
<aik> Life workshop
<zk> ok
<Audiocourses> hehe
<iNSTiNCT-DK> yep fine here, and chris..try to get sean in here, dont know why he didnt find it this time ;)
<aik>  i meant to say live
<Audiocourses> im trying right now brb
<iNSTiNCT-DK> i meant next time though
<iNSTiNCT-DK> but cool..i see he's still on the website so..
<Audiocourses> yup
<Audiocourses> i forgot guys..
<Audiocourses> im still waiting for you all to post something about yourselfs in the chill out zone
<Audiocourses> just so we all know who we are..
<Audiocourses> and
<Audiocourses> a picture would be good also, ya think?
<Rico`> yeah y not, i'll make sure to wear my cloaking device
<Audiocourses> lol
<aik> would be good with a picture
<Audiocourses> post your words in the chill zone and pop a pic in the uplaod place
<aik> Do you want me to put this thing about me in the chill out zone as well, as it has been here already?
<Audiocourses> you can create a link to it in the forums so it shows
<Rico`> ok
<Audiocourses> yes please aik
<aik> ok
<Audiocourses> so we are all in the same place for quick reference
<Audiocourses> a pint ot beer for the best formatted message (including pic)
<Rico`> ooo the magic words
<aik> tempting
<zk> :)
<Audiocourses> ya can have fun with formatting in there..
Session Time: Mon Sep 27 00:00:00 2004
<Audiocourses> I'll post up your new questions tomorrow, along with some additional material to help you on your listening journey
<Rico`> ok
<ben_m> quick question for you all
<Audiocourses> word of warning the ears DO work better without a cloaking device (fact)
<Audiocourses> :)
<Rico`> noted
<ben_m> how many of you have access to a VST host (cubase/logic/sonar/pro tools etc)
<Rico`> i have cubase
<Rico`> dont know much about it yet tho
<zk> I have logic pro
<ben_m> aik?
<aik> cubase SE
<ben_m> so you could all run a VST instrument then
<aik> yes
<Rico`> yup
<zk> yes
<ben_m> good, we could bring in a practical element to the synthesis section then
<ben_m> :)
<Audiocourses> tidy..
<zk> but Im on Mac
<aik> it's always good with some practical element
<ben_m> ouch
<ben_m> :)
<ben_m> lol
<ben_m> ok, i'll look for a free cross platform VSTi
<zk> cool
<Audiocourses> guess that wraps it up folks
<Audiocourses> don't forget I am on yahoo and ICQ everyday
<Rico`> ok so same time next week for session yeah?
<ben_m> workshop next week - saturday is a no go for me unfortunately
<Audiocourses> if needed
<Audiocourses> sunday same time?
<ben_m> thats good for me
<Rico`> me 2
<aik> and me
<iNSTiNCT-DK> yeah same time then
<zk> yes, no problem
<Audiocourses> cool bananas
<Audiocourses> have a great week then everyone
<aik> :)
<aik> Yes have a good week
<aik> I'm off, having studies to do!!!
<Audiocourses> :)
<ben_m> have a good week everyone - more MT questions tomorrow so try to catch up with last weeks!
<Rico`> cya next week folks, enjoy :)
<Rico`> will do
<iNSTiNCT-DK> see you..good luck with the questions
<zk> see you
<Rico`> thanks
* aik has left #audiocourses
* iNSTiNCT-DK has quit IRC (Quit: )
<Rico`> bye
* Rico` has quit IRC (Quit: ChaMoNe <censored>! Hee heeee)
<ben_m> cheers
* zk has quit IRC (Quit: bye)

---