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Session Start: Sat Oct 09 19:00:42 2004
Session Ident: #audiocourses
* Now talking in #audiocourses
* Disconnected
Session Close: Sat Oct 09 19:00:55 2004

Session Start: Sat Oct 09 19:06:48 2004
Session Ident: #audiocourses
* Now talking in #audiocourses
* seanm has joined #audiocourses
<seanm> hello there
<Audiocourses> hi
<Audiocourses> well done!
<seanm> thanks
<Audiocourses> just letting the others know now
* iNSTiNCT2 has joined #audiocourses
<iNSTiNCT2> hey
<Audiocourses> there he is
<seanm> hi instinct
<iNSTiNCT2> i went to the normal server and i saw ben and the others in there,
<Audiocourses> that was quick instinct
<iNSTiNCT2> hey sean
<seanm> ye
<iNSTiNCT2> hey chris
<Audiocourses> hi
<iNSTiNCT2> so sean, did u get ur practical done?
<seanm> I've got a first mix which i need to mixdown and post
* ben_m has joined #audiocourses
<iNSTiNCT2> cool
<ben_m> ahhh
<seanm> hi ben
<iNSTiNCT2> hey ben
<ben_m> hey, me and rico got into other server in the end
<ben_m> hi guys
<Audiocourses> fort some reason icq was not playing ball for a while there
* Rico| has joined #audiocourses
<Audiocourses> hi ben and rico
<ben_m> yeah, weird
<Rico|> hi everyone
<seanm> hi rico
<ben_m> thought i'd made a GMT/BST mistake
<Audiocourses> no ben you got your timing bang on
<ben_m> phew
<ben_m> makes a change ;)
<ben_m> brb
* Audiocourses changes topic to 'Exam Institutions'
<Audiocourses> got some things to cover tonight guys
<seanm> okay
<Rico|> ok
<Audiocourses> firstly i AIK wont be here, she has had some problems but said to tell all she will be back soon, this week.
<Audiocourses> ok the exams
<Audiocourses> I need the information on your choice of exam center.
<Audiocourses> if you recall there was an activity for this
<Rico|> ok, i have sent my letter but havn't heard anythig back yet
<Audiocourses> http://www.audiocourses.com/postt789.html
<seanm> had a bit of a prob with local colleges spoke to audio courses guy (forget his name) he suggested universities I've got to speak to Salford Uni
<Audiocourses> here is what you both need to do.
<seanm> asked me to ring back after registration do it this week
<Audiocourses> get the telephone number of each place.
<seanm> after they've agreed?
<Audiocourses> and call then asking for the "examinations office"
<iNSTiNCT2> hey chris do i get a didnt letter to send or?
<iNSTiNCT2> different
<iNSTiNCT2> not didnt :)
<Audiocourses> one sec ins
<Audiocourses> dont wait guys telephone tomorrow if you can
<Audiocourses> explain on the phone.
<Audiocourses> the examinations office typically will be able to arrange this
<seanm> i know who i need to speak to
<Audiocourses> I  need the following information :
<Audiocourses> 1. contact name
<Audiocourses> 2. institution address
<Audiocourses> 3. e-mail
<Audiocourses> 4. tel number
<Rico|> ok
<Audiocourses> I cant stress how important this is now
<Audiocourses> we have to enter you for the exams this week.
<seanm> CID
<seanm> mi speak consider it done!
<Rico|> lol was wondering
<Audiocourses> please reply to the thread posting in your info
<Audiocourses> regarding you inst
<Audiocourses> are you not simply visiting the same place as before?
<iNSTiNCT2> yep, thats what im expecting...just wondering if i needed a new letter when i email them
<Audiocourses> no i think you should be fine..
<Audiocourses> just explain you have done this before
<iNSTiNCT2> ok sure
<Audiocourses> so ill be entering rico and sean for both modules... right?
<Rico|> yup
<seanm> please
<Audiocourses> good men.
<Audiocourses> now on to more interesting things..
<Audiocourses> who has a tune we can listen to?
* Audiocourses changes topic to 'Tooons'
<Rico|> i've just tried the ftp and got an error
<seanm> if you give me ten minutes I'll post it up
<Audiocourses> rico ftp works
<Rico|> hmm
<seanm> shall i?
<Audiocourses> yes sean
<seanm> ok brb
<Rico|> aah i'm on now, went and got the address again
<Audiocourses> pesky gremlins again
<ben_m> good film that
<ben_m> ;)
<Audiocourses> lol
* Audiocourses blows his nose
<ben_m> still got a bug chris?
<Audiocourses> tail end now..
<Audiocourses> ok rico i see you put something in your folder?
<Rico|> yeah i'm uploading it now, still going
<ben_m> shall we grab?
<Audiocourses> k
<ben_m> oh ok
<Rico|> ok its finished
<Audiocourses> grabbing now
<Rico|> i found it quite difficult coz i'm new to cubase
<Audiocourses> done
<Rico|> but it helped me learn how to do some stuff, like automation
<Audiocourses> notin wrong with that rico
<Audiocourses> ahh  :))
<Audiocourses> good
<iNSTiNCT2> ill get it in a sec..
<Audiocourses> let me open it
<iNSTiNCT2> rico.zip?
<Rico|> everytime i listen to it, i want to change something heh
<Rico|> yup
<iNSTiNCT2> aight, im d/l it now
<Audiocourses> ok im pressing play now
<ben_m> hmm, i just got an empty zip file
<iNSTiNCT2> not bad mix but it sounds really mono to me.
* Audiocourses sings along
<Audiocourses> ok before i mention anything you wanna tell us about your technique here sean, you didnt ok dude.
<Audiocourses> ooops
<Audiocourses> you DID ok..
<Audiocourses> ;)
<Rico|> lol
<ben_m> lol
<Audiocourses> and rico not sean..
<Rico|> hehe
<Audiocourses> it's the fever
<iNSTiNCT2> haha
<seanm> sorry just bin refused ftp acces trying to get thru from link on site
<Rico|> ok, i was a bit lost with what to do at first, coz like i say i'm new to cubase
<Audiocourses> k
<ben_m> seanm - you using username and password
<ben_m> ?
<Rico|> i listened to it and tried to pick out the tracks that were very loud in places
<Rico|> i tried mixing just the drum section together at first
<seanm> sorry ben not asking me for that just said
<ben_m> just pm-ed you
<seanm> ?
<ben_m> ok, did you copy and paste this;
<ben_m> ftp://part3:avsome@ftp.audiocourses.com
<ben_m> into browser
<seanm> windows cannot access this folder
<Rico|> and grouped tracks together like the main riff elements and tried to mix them so they went together
<Rico|> i added some reverb to the kick drum
<Rico|> and some to one of the percussion tracks
<seanm> thanks ben i'm in posting in seanm folder
<Rico|> i automated the main voice track a little in places to overcome the strings section
<Audiocourses> how do you mean automated?
<Rico|> well at first i tried to just change the fader in real time, then i realised i could do it on a seperate line
<Rico|> moving points
<Audiocourses> are you referral to the levels?
<Rico|> aah yes
<Rico|> i brought it up a bit
<Rico|> then took it down again
<Audiocourses> the vocal level in relation to the other parts?
<Rico|> yes
<Audiocourses> ok got ya
<Rico|> i did the same with 1 of the percussion tracks, as i thought the cymbal was very loud
<Rico|> so i automated the level down in places
<Audiocourses> i see..
<Audiocourses> so you have become an automation expert in cubasE?
<Rico|> thats about as far as i got, like i say everytime i listen to it i want to change it
<Rico|> lol i'm getting there;)
<Audiocourses> rico when you feel like you want to change it everytime that is great!
<Audiocourses> that's moving forward...
<Audiocourses> can takes an age
<Rico|> i thought so:)
<Audiocourses> this is a difficult one to mix
<seanm> it's there now
<Audiocourses> not easy... particularly if used to electronic sources
<Rico|> i enjoyed doing it,but yeah it was difficult
<Audiocourses> ok sean will do yours in a bit
<seanm> sure
<Audiocourses> whatya think about the comment instinct made rico?
<Rico|> i'm not sure to be honest
<Audiocourses> sean have you listened to rico's?
<seanm> no i'll get it
<Audiocourses> sean did you look at the mixer window much in cubase?
<Audiocourses> oops
<Audiocourses> rico i meant to say 9sorry)
<Rico|> lol
<iNSTiNCT2> hehe
* CACHAVACHA has joined #audiocourses
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<Audiocourses> lol
<Rico|> yeah i looked at it a fair bit
<Rico|> once i found it;)
<Audiocourses> what ya make of it, anything interesting there?
<Audiocourses> eq for exmaple?
<Rico|> i noticed an eq state button on each channel
<Audiocourses> you can actually "processs" or change the sound of each track radically using the eq there..
<Rico|> oops now i see at the top of each channel
<Rico|> lots of mono
<Rico|> a couple say stereo
<seanm> brb
<Rico|> how do u process from the mixer?
<Audiocourses> ben, ya wanna?
<ben_m> sure
<ben_m> rico which version of cubase you got?
<Rico|> sx
<ben_m> 1 or 2?
<Rico|> 2
<ben_m> ok
<ben_m> so you've got your project window
<ben_m> and your mixer window
<ben_m> accessible by pressing F3
<Rico|> aha a shortcut
<ben_m> ok
<Rico|> right
<seanm> sorry bout that got invaded by a six year old wearing a plastic bag
<ben_m> you can get to eq, inserts and dynamics from both mixer and proj window
<Rico|> lol
<Audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> do you have the 'inspector' open in the project window?
<Rico|> erm, what does that look like
<ben_m> ok, in the project window next to the list of tracks do you have another 'window' on the left with information such as input output etc?
<Rico|> aah never mind, yes i do
<ben_m> ok
<Rico|> eq, eq curve etc, yes
<ben_m> yes
<ben_m> have you used the eq in this window?
<Rico|> i havn't no, can't say i know how to
<ben_m> ok, we'll do the easier way then
<ben_m> in the inspector windwo
<ben_m> on each track there should be an 'e' button
<ben_m> got that?
<Rico|> yup, thats brought up an extra window
<ben_m> thats the one
<ben_m> this new window is the channel settings for that channel
<ben_m> including eq
<ben_m> inserts (for inserting compressors gates etc)
<ben_m> and sends (for accessing reverb, delay etc)
<ben_m> so, the eq
<ben_m> you can see it's a graph
<ben_m> from left to right is the freq.
<Rico|> yes
<ben_m> 20Hz to 20kHz
<ben_m> and up and down is gain
<ben_m> -24db to +24db
<Rico|> got it
<ben_m> the easiest way to get started is to click somewhere on the line
<ben_m> and a number and a point will appear
<ben_m> you can now manipulate this point on the graph
<ben_m> which in turn affects the eq
<ben_m> so for instance click on the graph and move the point around
<ben_m> as you move it around you will see the numbers below the graph changing
<ben_m> this represents the changes you are making to the sound
<ben_m> in the basic cubase EQ you have 4 points you can use
<ben_m> so it is a '4-band' EQ
<Rico|> i see
<ben_m> as well as changing the freq and gain
<ben_m> you can also change the 'q' of the EQ
<ben_m> for instance, grab a point and drag it up to +24db at arouind 500Hz
<ben_m> now, under the graph, there are a few knobs
<Rico|> ok
<ben_m> some will say  low.s or 0.2
<ben_m> these change the 'shape'
<ben_m> so manipulate the control
<ben_m> and see the point you have put there change shape
<ben_m> from a narrow boost
<ben_m> to a wide boost
<ben_m> and also filters
<ben_m> you see this?
<Rico|> yup
<ben_m> also, above the graph there are 2 little buttons
<ben_m> one like
<ben_m> 0<<
<ben_m> this resets the mixer
<ben_m> one like a square under a line
<ben_m> this bypasses the eq
<ben_m> sorry 0<< resets EQ not mixer
<Rico|> right
<ben_m> each 'point'/band is also switchable on and off
<ben_m> good for a/b your changes
<ben_m> for experimenting with eq, stereo/mono drum tracks/breakbeats
<ben_m> are good
<ben_m> these contain most freqs
<ben_m> bass - kick drum, floor tom
<ben_m> mids - rack toms, snare
<ben_m> treble - hats, ride crash
<ben_m> things like vocals will not be as obvious
<ben_m> not much vocal energy 20Hz-200Hz for instance
<ben_m> and not much over 10kHz
<ben_m> with eq it is a good idea to 'cut' rather than boost
<ben_m> when possible at least
<ben_m> if you want more bass and treble
<ben_m> try cutting the mid first
<ben_m> you see?
<Rico|> yup
<Rico|> that window is very useful
<ben_m> very!!
<ben_m> this is where most of your mixing should take place
<ben_m> by 'mixing' i mean production
<ben_m> also, all of these elements can be accessed from the inspector window
<Rico|> yeah i can see that, u have everything in one place
<Rico|> aah
<ben_m> so for quick tweaks you don't have to leave the project window
<ben_m> how handy is that!
<ben_m> also a notepad for each channel in inspector
<ben_m> so you can write down notes
<ben_m> good for when you're tired and you want to go to bed but you have an idea
<ben_m> !
<Rico|> indeed
<ben_m> also for documenting things like mic used etc
<Audiocourses> thanks ben...
<Rico|> thanks very helpful
<Audiocourses> sean did you have a listen to Rico's?
<seanm> yes
<Audiocourses> thoughts?
<seanm> rico nice work i thought you kept a live raw feel to it
<seanm> it was a band
<seanm> i thought you might have been a bit scared of changing or leaving out things
<Rico|> thanks, that was probably unintentional though, as i'm not up on cubase quite yet
<Rico|> yes i suppose i did leave everything in
<seanm> i thought there were things which were'nt bringing anything to the party
<seanm> did you enjoy it though
<Rico|> anything in particular sean, for reference
<Rico|> yes very much
<seanm> one of the overhead drum tracks there were three i think
<seanm> one of the rhodes/keyboard tracks
<Audiocourses> shall we bring up yours now sean..? 
<seanm> gulp
<Rico|> yeah i was trying to get them all to work together, never thought of just cutting one
<seanm> one of then had some nasty phasing on it anyway
<Audiocourses> ok
<Audiocourses> listening to yours now sean
<seanm> not finished yet
<ben_m> one thing apparent from it
<ben_m> i'd hazard a guess that the speakers you mixed this one have a poor low freq response
<ben_m> ?
<seanm> I got monitoring probs
<Audiocourses> sean yes...  that's clear.
<ben_m> what you mix on monitor wise?
<Audiocourses> or overlly bright room.
<seanm> not totally sure wot it is
<seanm> genelecs
<seanm> 1029's
<ben_m> really? should be good LF response there?
<ben_m> you got the hi pass filters switched in?
<ben_m> oh, are the 1029s the little ones?
<seanm> arrrrggg
<seanm> yes the little ones
<ben_m> right, might just be a size 'thang' then
<Audiocourses> what is the room sean?
<Audiocourses> a bathroom?
<seanm> converted garage
<Audiocourses> ahhh
<Audiocourses> ya got lots of reflective surfaces there?
<seanm> things always sound tot diff at the studio
<seanm> levels all over the place
<seanm> not got round to sorting it out
<ben_m> quite a bit of low/low-mid going on in this
<Audiocourses> what im doing is uploading a snippet of roughly the eq sound youd aim for...
<seanm> okay
<Audiocourses> ideally you want to have yours in your editor.. so you can A/B them, the thing ben mentioned..
<Audiocourses> A/B to make a comparision
<Audiocourses> between the two
<seanm> not sure i follow
<Audiocourses> ok i have wavelab
<Audiocourses> so i can load two files in there
<seanm> soundforge
<Audiocourses> i can arrnage the windows
<Audiocourses> so one is at the top
<seanm> yes
<Audiocourses> one at the bottom
<Audiocourses> this way i can easily toggle between the two
<ben_m> you can click on windows menu and 'tile' i think
<Audiocourses> and also i can visualise them
<Audiocourses> ok i uploaded the snippet
<seanm> ftp?
<Audiocourses> ya might weanna grab it a sec and you rico
<Audiocourses> yes
<Audiocourses> it's in the root
<Audiocourses> see him?
<seanm> getting it
<Rico|> i can't see it
<ben_m> right click then refresh
<ben_m> ?
<Rico|> aah yeah
<Audiocourses> now while ben and myself (and instinct) i think, chat about the eq now, remember it is all about taste.. BUT generally we all soon relaise ya gotta mix for the widest range of media
<Audiocourses> and audience
<Audiocourses> individual lines, sounds, and bits and pieces are of course subjective.. BUT
<Audiocourses> you wanna strive for an EQ curve that gives your music a better chance..
<Audiocourses> right?
<Rico|> sounds
<Rico|> good
<Audiocourses> what does "good" mean rico?
<Rico|> sorry i meant your statement
<Rico|> still downloading
<Audiocourses> ah ok..
<Audiocourses> this is a wav file...
<Audiocourses> so even though a snippet, it's a little big..
<Rico|> by the way, nice one sean. i see wot u mean now about mine, a lot going on that doesnt need to be there
<Audiocourses> regarding yours sean, you balanced fairly well.. so well done..
<Audiocourses> but
<Audiocourses> as ben immediately indicated
<Audiocourses> you have major monitoring issues
<Audiocourses> OR
<Audiocourses> room issues
<seanm> just comparing yours sound really really toppy and harsh on mine
<seanm> i mean really
<Audiocourses> sean good..
<ben_m> hmm acoustics are probably culprit then
<Audiocourses> it's meant to
<Audiocourses> to a point
<seanm> not this much i'm sure
<ben_m> sean - I have used 1029s before and they are what are sometimes referred to as grot boxes
<seanm> go on
<ben_m> well, some monitors, such as 1029s, NS10ms etc
<seanm> the white yamaha things
<ben_m> are used in preference to 'nice' sounding monitors
<ben_m> yeah, the yams
<ben_m> :)
<ben_m> they're very honest
<ben_m> for instance with the NS10ms
<ben_m> industry standard by the way
<seanm> am i overcompensating for lack of bottom or something
<ben_m> spot on
<ben_m> the drivers on the 1029s are aprox 3" if i remember correctly
<seanm> yes
<Audiocourses> sean monitors like NS10s are an engineering tool, not necssarily for pleasurable listening
<ben_m> i've used them in a studio where they complement a large quested system with massive sub
<Audiocourses> there is a big difference
<ben_m> the genelecs and ns10s are more 'harsh'
<ben_m> some people say
<seanm> i know they have that rep
<ben_m> if you can get a mix sounding good on ns10s
<ben_m> it'll sound good on anything
<ben_m> !
<ben_m> not 100% true
<seanm> heard that
<ben_m> but you get the sentiment
<seanm> ye
<Audiocourses> sean
<Audiocourses> i would suggest
<seanm> ye
<iNSTiNCT2> are they still making ns10's though?
<ben_m> inst - no
<Audiocourses> you take some commercial stuff
<iNSTiNCT2> i heard they were discont.
<Audiocourses> and listen and listen to it in your room
<ben_m> inst - still get the drivers though
<ben_m> inst - new yamhas have replced ns10ms
<iNSTiNCT2> aight
<Audiocourses> listen to how "harsh" it is..
<ben_m> inst - watch their 2nd hand value rise!
<iNSTiNCT2> i know...ebay
<Audiocourses> in your room...
<seanm> yes
<Audiocourses> that's how you have to mix yours stuff then
<Audiocourses> until you fix it..
<ben_m> refer back to commercial material every 30 mins or so
<ben_m> keep your ears 'tuned'
<seanm> i think i've allowed mine to be tunes to the genelecs
<seanm> tuned
<ben_m> sean - you could take some dig pics of your setup, room etc and post them on the forum and maybe get a discussion going on how to improve room acoustics cheaply?
<ben_m> a lot of the time 80% of probs can be cured for very cheap!
<seanm> ye i gotta do it
<Audiocourses> or mix with the knowledge of what commercial material sounds like in your environment..
<seanm> comparing mine and yours in soundforge it's so obvious
<Audiocourses> not, as you "like" it..
<Audiocourses> sean, this exmaple is overely e.q and processed, with drums heavy also..
<Audiocourses> but it's just a pointer to help you see the lights...
<seanm> ok
<Audiocourses> are you with this Rico?
<Rico|> i am yes, i'm just comparing in soundforge at the mo
<Audiocourses> the additional thing you'll both notice is the overall level...
<Audiocourses> which is covered in mastering..
<Audiocourses> when do we do that?
<Rico|> week 8 i think
<Audiocourses> k.
<Audiocourses> ben whats your topics this week?
<ben_m> i believe it is midi?
<ben_m> could be wrong though
<Audiocourses> ahh..
<Rico|> MT Sampling 1 week 6
<ben_m> oh yeah
<ben_m> got a practical
<ben_m> sampling
<Audiocourses> i wonder if ya might wanna get a practical around drum replacement
<Audiocourses> as this example has....
<ben_m> yeah
<ben_m> in that casei got 2 practicals
<ben_m> :)
<Rico|> hehe
<Audiocourses> ok..
<Audiocourses> i'll do the drum thing.. for rt..
<ben_m> we could do a joint practical
<Audiocourses> sounds like fun
<ben_m> i could supply some beats
<ben_m> drums could be extracted from the beats
<ben_m> tidied up
<ben_m> then used for your replacement
<Audiocourses> ok..
<Audiocourses> sound ok with you guys?
<Rico|> yup
<seanm> ye
<Audiocourses> ok keep your stuff like that hats on then
<Audiocourses> i know you love it..
<seanm> ?
<Rico|> yeah its funky
<Rico|> the tune we just done, 'stuff like that'
<seanm> oops
<Rico|> hehe
<Audiocourses> lets have a quick check for times for next week..
<seanm> same time?
<Rico|> fine with me, i can do saturday or sunday
<Audiocourses> one hour earlier?
<seanm> 5 uk
<Audiocourses> yes
<Rico|> fine with me
<ben_m> 1hr earlier is good with me
<iNSTiNCT2> thats fine with me to
<Audiocourses> ben?
<ben_m> yeah fine
<ben_m> sat or sun?
<Audiocourses> great.. that was easy guys.
<seanm> sat?
<Audiocourses> yes
<ben_m> cool
<seanm> good
<Rico|> great!
<Rico|> ;)
<Audiocourses> hey you two.. where are the pics?
<Audiocourses> aik made the effort
<seanm> sorry time thing
<Rico|> aah, erm
<Rico|> will try get it done this week
<seanm> me too
<Audiocourses> just keep the baseball hat off rico ;)
<Rico|> aaaw
<ben_m> lol
<Rico|> ok hehe
<Audiocourses> best thing to do with that hat is let sean use it for some sound absorbtion in his garage
<seanm> lol
<Rico|> lol
<Audiocourses> i splet that wrong..
<ben_m> nice spletting
<Rico|> haha
<Audiocourses> fancs
<ben_m> no wirries
<Audiocourses> nice use of the word "nice"
<Audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> nice
<ben_m> ;)
<iNSTiNCT2> very nice.. aight people, im gonna go..ill see u all next saturday
<seanm> bye instinct
<Rico|> cya instinct
<Audiocourses> ok good work on the questions ins!
<Audiocourses> and sean..
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<seanm> yes
<seanm> oh the questions!
<seanm> thanks
<Rico|> right i'm off too guyz
<Audiocourses> ok.
<seanm> se ya rico
<Rico|> cyaz next week, have a goodun
<seanm> and u
<ben_m> cheers all
<Audiocourses> cheers now
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<seanm> see ya next week and thanks
<Audiocourses> welcome
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