BobTheBuilder
Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 1
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| Wide 3D Mixes |
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Hi Everyone... Great forum!
I write and produce a lot of popmusic, and it's all very well, except that my mixes never sound "Magic".
I can't seem to get that 3D and wide mix. I'm using different reverbs for instruments, and are very careful with panning... still it doesn't sound magic.
My setup are:
Røde NT2
Focusrite voicemaster pro
Beringer MX1604A
Athlon 2000+ - 512 ram
Dynaudio BM6A
UAD-1 Studio plugins.
Cubase SX
Is it a hardware question, or simply just experience?
Thank you all for your help.
BTB |
Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:23 pm |
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stix
Assisstant
Joined: 24 Sep 2004
Posts: 39
Location: Frankfort Ky |
I also use cubase sx. The way I do it is, not only with a plugin but techs.
1. I eather record 2 dubs or just clone one and pitch shift it.(Do Nots shift it alot if you are going to try this out.)
2. Then I use a expander. I add aout 35% to the dubs and by the way after you shift them pan them 100% R L speaker. The expander just make the R L speakers stand out.
3. Then for the master fader I use the same expander 100% unless it sounds bad.
Thats just how I try to get my "3D" sound try it and let me know how it works for you i hope it helps. If anyone can addon to that please do I could always find new wayss. They may even sound better. |
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Mon Oct 18, 2004 3:06 pm |
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LilBuddy
Engineer
Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 49
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when you say "expander" is that a plugin in cubase...or is it a different plugin altogether that you got somewhere else? |
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Sat Dec 09, 2006 4:28 am |
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wailingalleycat
Forum Manager
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Jersey C.I (UK) |
| Stereo at source |
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Stix,
some interesting techniques, but sounds very "cubasey", overprocessed etc.
the key to a wide mix is to record it wide from source by placing mics correctly to begin with. pseudo stereo will never be as effective as true stereo. with careful consideration for phase of course, the mono button on your monitoring mixer is your friend, keep checking it when recording to see how it sounds when summed.
_________________
If In Doubt...Hit It With a Hammer, If Still In Doubt... Find a Bigger Hammer. |
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Sat Dec 09, 2006 11:13 pm |
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conquistadore
Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 513
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| Expanders |
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quote:
Originally posted by LilBuddy
when you say "expander" is that a plugin in cubase...or is it a different plugin altogether that you got somewhere else?
An expander is a kind of processor (like how you have compressors, limiters, EQs, etc). An expander and a gate work very similarily.
There are basically three kinds of expanders - upward expanders, downward expanders and the mix of the both called a 'compander'.
An expander works opposite to how a compressor works. While a compressor reduces the level of the signal after it crosses the threshold (the gain reduction depending on the ratio set), an upward expander
increases
the level of the signal after it
crosses
the threshold. And, a downward expander
decreases
the level of the signal if it is
below
the threshold.
A compander does both - increases the level of the signal if it crosses the threshold or decreases it if it falls below the threshold.
An expander can be used effectively for signals that are noisy (like electric guitars) and where the noise can be heard during quiter parts. Instead of spending hours cleaning a track it can be used effectivley by just sitting with it for a couple of minutes and setting the parameters.
--
And to reply to the topic, in addition to recording at the source, mixes with width and depth can be created by the careful use of EQ, compression, reverb (reverb time, pre delay, reverb type, reverb EQ), stereo delays (ping pong, rhythmic, feedback, delay equalisation) and other 'creative' processing tools (using harmonisers, phasers, modulated delays, etc). It's all about fooling the brain  |
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Sun Dec 10, 2006 7:53 am |
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wailingalleycat
Forum Manager
Joined: 07 Oct 2003
Posts: 694
Location: Jersey C.I (UK) |
| Psychoacoustics & Stereo |
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Varun, do you think you could post up some of those experiments you did with pyschoacoustics at SAE? like the one with the drums that you experimented on me with. thats a good example of how stereo can "fool the brain"
_________________
If In Doubt...Hit It With a Hammer, If Still In Doubt... Find a Bigger Hammer. |
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Sun Dec 10, 2006 4:41 pm |
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conquistadore
Forum Moderator
Joined: 03 Aug 2004
Posts: 513
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| fool your brain! |
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Yeah sure Paul.
Anyone interested in Psychoacoustics - basic stuff which can be helpful in everyday mixing, can read my paper
Perception and Effective Reproduction of Sound
I'll get back to what you are talking about Paul, a bit later.
Lets start off with a trick most people know about - pseudo stereo. This a trick used to make a mono sound stereo. What is done is the mono track is duplicated and the original track and the duplicated track are panned hard left and right. One of the tracks is then delayed by 20-30ms (milliseconds). And..magic..it sounds like stereo!
Just like all magic, its nothing but an "illusion" - which works on the ear and brain. The ear and brain have certain limitations. One of them being that we cannot distinguish between the delayed and the actual sound if the delay between them is around 30ms and below. Understand how pseudo stereo works now?
When that duplicated track is delayed by around 20ms, the brain cannot distinguish the two sounds as seperate ones. But since they are panned left and right - the two sounds arrive at our two ears at
different
times - just like how a stereo signal behaves..congrats you just fooled yourself! 
I'll get back with more tomorrow, and explain what Paul mentioned in his post (panning a sound in a complete 360 degress circle using the simplest plugin found on every DAW - delay). |
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Mon Dec 11, 2006 6:40 pm |
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