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Now talking in #AudioCourses
* audiocourses changes topic to 'welcome'
<audiocourses> welcome back
<danicook> it's working now, it's was because i was having to use an alias on mirc
<danicook> :-) thank you
<audiocourses> ah ok.
<audiocourses> welcome
<audiocourses> and Mike, how you getting on?
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<audiocourses> And here is Ben back on
<ben_m> no luck with mirc
<danicook> most of the gang is here, whi is missing?
<danicook> have you registered your nickname on mirc?
<audiocourses> Yes I have dani.
<ben_m> i thought I did
<danicook> technology! bah! lol
<audiocourses> We are waiting for Nancy, I noticed she is logged into the site.
<mike_nostradamus> do you haveto register on mirc to login?
<danicook> i'm not sure, i think so,
<audiocourses> No you don't Mike, as far as I am aware.
<danicook> it only let me on with a registered nick
<mike_nostradamus> I'll try later
<ben_m> nancy has pm'ed me chris, i think shes having connection problems with the browser based client
<audiocourses> You will be given a default nick of "guest". You can change the nick easily.
<audiocourses> Ah ok thanks, Ben., fingers crossed for her.
<danicook> i had to shut down IE and try it 3 times b4 it let me in, i had a java error
<mike_nostradamus> Chrish I just noticed the little guy with a green hat are you from ireland?
<audiocourses> Oh do i still have that on? I'm popped into the web version briefly.. don't see that fella here. lol
<danicook> !server
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Technology huh...!'
<danicook> lol
<danicook> do we get any course materials?
<audiocourses> Dani, did you get your Studio Recording Engineer yet?
<danicook> the e-book?
<audiocourses> Yes the download you "install"
<danicook> yes, but the password doesn't let me unzip it
<audiocourses> I'll send you a mail right now with your password info.
<mike_nostradamus> My passwork worked fine. for the program
<danicook> ig to an e-mail about an e-book and one which was what looked like course materials, but when i tried to download it, it said i wasn't logged in and when i logged in i couldn't find it
<mike_nostradamus> and the compression secrets I now have
<audiocourses> Dani, I have put a message on the forum regarding the download. bascially go here: edited
<danicook> the file is called "studio.zip"
<audiocourses> complete the form for your password.
<audiocourses> oops wrong one..
<audiocourses> this one:
<audiocourses> edited
<danicook> i got a password, starts with "letme....." but it didn't work
<mike_nostradamus> gone for a minute
<audiocourses> Dani, should all wor fine with your password.
<audiocourses>  informal introductions and chit chat
<audiocourses>  learning methods/resources
<audiocourses>  logging into FTP area for uploads/downloads
<audiocourses>  looking at week 2
<audiocourses> This is the plan for this Live Workshop... so as we have drifted into resources we may as well start to focus on methods also. OK?
<danicook> yeah, got it. decided to try it in lowercase, rather than uppercase as in the e-mail, lol
<audiocourses> That's a deliberate trick to test the mind! lol
<danicook> lol
<audiocourses> Any news from Nancy< ben
<ben_m> last thing she was gonna try to download mirc and get in via that
<audiocourses> OK thanks.
<mike_nostradamus> I,m back
<audiocourses> welcome.
<danicook> wb
<audiocourses> OK so lets move on..
<audiocourses> Regarding resources.
<audiocourses> The main thrust of the course should really be focussing on passing your exams.
<audiocourses> Are we agreed on this?
<danicook> yes
<mike_nostradamus> yup from me
<audiocourses> OK good, if we agree on that we will head in the same direction.
<audiocourses> I think this is also true for Nancy
<audiocourses> Now for your exams you will have two 3 hours papers
<audiocourses> One for each subject..
<audiocourses> Recording Techniques
<audiocourses> Music Technology
<danicook> i see
<audiocourses> I am the Production Advisor for RT
<audiocourses> and Ben for MT
<audiocourses> all clear?
<danicook> yes
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> We are your points of contact for difficulties...
<audiocourses> it is our job to ensure we get your through eahc module.
<audiocourses> so if you have a problem with USB you contact Ben
<audiocourses> if you have a problem with stereo mic techniques you contact me..
<audiocourses> Of course, it's beyter if you contact each other..
<danicook> i understand
<audiocourses> I would suggest we swap e-mails as well as use the forum.
<danicook> that makes sense
<mike_nostradamus> sure thing
<audiocourses> You would be better to use the forum for specific quesitons, as this saves ben and myself repeating content
<danicook> yup
<audiocourses> but if you have hard times/difficulties.worries etc..  do not hesitate to contact us.
<mike_nostradamus> that might  be wise we all get to see the answer
<audiocourses> See us as the guides for your modules, to steer you through your learning.
<audiocourses> Now back to these exams..ok?
<danicook> ok
<mike_nostradamus> yep
<audiocourses> Personally I've taught these subjects for 8 years
<audiocourses> I'm pretty well up on what the City & Guilds board of markers look for.
<audiocourses> Each exam has a total of 15 questions.
<audiocourses> You have seen the style of these questions already, I posted that forum thread and those questions were taken straight from past papers.
<danicook> ok
<mike_nostradamus> yep
<audiocourses> In answering those questions the examiners look for answers that indicate the student is a thinker..
<audiocourses> a person who can troubleshoot and be creative in a recording situation..
<danicook> just what an engineer needs to do
<audiocourses> The exam does not necessarily look for black and white answers.
<audiocourses> This is an important concept to understand.
<danicook> so it's subjective?
<audiocourses> Yes, to a certain extent it is....
<danicook> i see
<audiocourses> so lest spend 10 mins on that concept.
<danicook> ok
<mike_nostradamus> ok
<audiocourses> Is recording a subjective medium?
<danicook> yes
<audiocourses> why do you say that Dani?
<danicook> well, if you mean the listener, all music is subjective,
<audiocourses> I agree with that..
<audiocourses> What about sitting behind a desk?... the options..
<audiocourses> Or placing microphones... is that a subjective discipline?
<audiocourses> anyone?
<danicook> when "at the desk" you can either steer a mis, or let the mix steer itself
<danicook> for me, mike placement is less subjective, i don't experiment much and try to keep things "standard"
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<audiocourses> I'd like to get Ben's thought here for a sec..
<ben_m> sure thing
<audiocourses> "standard" is quite an interesting angle Ben do you think?
<ben_m> i feel that the recording process itself is a creative art - there are standards that people adhere to
<ben_m> standards are usually different within different genres
<danicook> i agree
<ben_m> there are many ways to get a certain sound, but less ways to get a particular sound
<danicook> that's very nicely put,
<ben_m> for instance, a metallica style guitar part will have certain ingredients
<ben_m> drawn from different disciplines such as eq, mic technique as well as playing style
<ben_m> in audio engineering many people tend to reference a sound they are after to a certain band or genre
<ben_m> hence the development of 'standards'
<ben_m> and standards are needed to define avant garde or groundbreaking work
<ben_m> as in we work with opposites - you need a good to have an evil etc
<ben_m> do you agree?
<danicook> i agree with most of that,
<danicook> i think that every generation copies something from the generation before it, little bits of the 60's are still with us today,
<danicook> people will allways try to emulate some great tune or sound that they've heard
<danicook> but they mix it with their own sound and music grows
<ben_m> definitely - thats why we have a 'motown' sound or a 'nashville' sound. and thats why people take these threads and create new twists
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<danicook> yeah, i've allways thought of songwriting as writing the songs you want to hear that no one has written for you, if that makes any sense
<danicook> wb mike
<mike_nostradamus> I'm Back I got cut off.bleep bleep!!
<danicook> :-) hi
<ben_m> yeah, I think the greatest thrill of songwriting/production/engineering etc is to listen back to a finished track and know that you would buy it! I hear so many songs that I wish i'd written/produced
<mike_nostradamus> Did I miss much i hope  not
<danicook> yeah, i know that feeling, a song that get right inside you, and because of your background, you can hear what the engineer/producer was trying to acheive
<ben_m> yes. and its different for everyone, consolidating what you said earlier about subjectivity
<mike_nostradamus> From what I'm Reading you must be talking about teamwork between musician and eng.
<danicook> a lot of music is wasted on people who don't hear "all" of it, i mean the suble reverb on a snare, or the almost inaudible riff in your left ear
<audiocourses> Welcome back mike. We are discussing the possibility that recording is a subjective art.
<mike_nostradamus> ok what do you mean by subjective?
<ben_m> yes, all the 'garnish' on a mix is very much unnoticed by the record buying public
<ben_m> most of the record buying public rather
<audiocourses> leading on from chatting about the style of exam questions.
<danicook> i think musicians put the little bits in for themselves and other musicians
<ben_m> yes, there is always some kind of unspoken comraderie between musicians, lots of audio 'gags' and references etc
<danicook> yeah,
<audiocourses>  Typicaly, the past exam questions do not account for this "motown" or "nashville" . So for example, when asked, how would you "mic-up" a drum kit? What's the angle to take? The questions rarely take the form of: You are required to create an "Eagles" drum sound, how is this achieved? Or what constitutes an Elvis "echo". - so we need to think laterally.
<audiocourses> OK mike..?
<audiocourses> Sorry for the intrusion there guys, just bringin Mike up to speed.
<danicook> which, by it's very nature, doesn't sound subjective, but "standard"
<audiocourses> What do you feel about this Mike? Have you grasped the theme?
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<audiocourses> Did we loose mike?
<danicook> the beavers have got him :-)
<audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> damn beavers
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<danicook> lol
<audiocourses> da moose is loose in da hoose
<ben_m> hey i think nancys got here
<danicook> hey nancy?
<audiocourses> Nancy hey.
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Welcome Nancy'
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<audiocourses> oh..
<ben_m> oh shes a goner
<danicook> hope it was nancy, or we all look daft, lol
<audiocourses> And Mike...?
<ben_m> well, the server seems to think he is still connected
<danicook> mork calling orson, i mean mike....
<audiocourses> brb
<ben_m> ok chris
<danicook> k
<danicook> so, what do you do ben?
<mike_nostradamus> we'll from where i came from as a musicianin astudio i wanted on tape my feelings not the eng. feelings You know wew had to work toghether to get the sounds I wanted.Myself i've been there in the studio and I've seen some arogant behaviour but I've seen myself ask the musicians to come and listen to their ceation not mine.Im still writing I hope i'm on the right track
<ben_m> i lecture on an HND Sound Engineering course, but i'm also in a covers band as well as doing production
<ben_m> mike - you're back
<audiocourses> yeah go on Mike.
<mike_nostradamus> you bet your bleep I am
<danicook> do you believe in "happy mistakes"
<danicook> as in recording something not the way you intended, but keeping it anyway
<ben_m> i am - how about you mike?
<audiocourses> Mike seems to be "lagging"...
<mike_nostradamus> What wants me to do this right now is that when I was a  young pup nothing was available out there to get the feeling of recording ones own talent which I'm doing now
<danicook> them dam (pun) beavers, lol
<ben_m> groan... lol
<mike_nostradamus> I'm trying to keep up !!!
<danicook> sorry mike, thought you were having tech probs again
<mike_nostradamus> no teck problems doing fine
<danicook> :-)
<audiocourses> just hit ya with a ping Mike..  you are ok with the lag :)
<audiocourses> ping pong
<mike_nostradamus> thanks
<audiocourses> mirc was made for us...
<ben_m> yes mike, there has certainly been an explosion in home recording equipment, and prices are tumbling - the power we have no would have been unbelievable 10 years ago
<danicook> haha
<danicook> the pc had transformed the home recording artist
<ben_m> yes, it has. it has taken away a lot of the power of the larger studios and demystified the recording process
<audiocourses> Future generations may develop mice shaped hands.. discuss (joke)
<danicook> but you still need an "ear" to be able to utilise it to it's full potentioal
<danicook> rofl
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<audiocourses> And more that that! dani.. much much more.
<audiocourses> HI guest.. is it you Nancy?
<mike_nostradamus> yes I can see that but its still an art to put mthis to medium and one has to be tought
<audiocourses> A learning community I like to see it as. :)
<danicook> i think it's difficult to teach "art", technique, yes. but art is something that comes from within
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<audiocourses> Sharing of experience
<mike_nostradamus> go on!!
<mike_nostradamus> right on we all share
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Nancy Hits Back'
<danicook> lol
<audiocourses> HI Resol69
<audiocourses> Do you see us typing?
<mike_nostradamus> when an artist suceeds we as eng. suceed
<ben_m> nod once for yes...
<danicook> maybe it's a spy
<resol69> Better late than never. Sorry about that. Had to switch computers.
<danicook> hi,
<ben_m> hey nancy
<audiocourses> That's an interesting angle Mike..  though I remember my first recordings, and numerous students "flapping", and loosing it in front of great musicians.
<mike_nostradamus> where is nancy logging in from the us..
<audiocourses> Yee ha Nancy..  conragts..  it's not fashionable to be late anymore, that was the 80's. :)  (kidding)
<danicook> lol @ chrish
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<mike_nostradamus> its about time
<danicook> oops
<mike_nostradamus> oops
<audiocourses> Shit, somethng I said?
<danicook> lol
<mike_nostradamus> I'm gone for a minute
<audiocourses> OK moose probs? Mike.
<audiocourses> must be..
<danicook> so chris, do you think,as an engineer, you need to be subjective, or just give the artist what they want?
<ben_m> they're buggers to domesticate
<audiocourses> Depends if a producer is in the room, depends if they are a small local band, depends if they are a jazz band, depends depends depends
<danicook> horses for courses
<audiocourses> Depends if THEY know what they want
<audiocourses> often they think they do..
<danicook> true
<audiocourses> "they" being the clients
<danicook> not "the voices"
<audiocourses> lol
<danicook> ;-)
<ben_m> lol
<audiocourses> oh don;t remind me
<audiocourses> pesky scooby doo voices
<danicook> should the engineer also be the producer, or is it better to split up the responsiblilty?
<audiocourses> That's a good point..
<audiocourses> Probably a good idea ot habe both in my opinion...
<danicook> the hardest person to engineer/produce is yourself
<audiocourses> True, though let's assume "we" as engineers are not the artists.
<danicook> i would imagine there has to be a compromise with what the producer wants to hear and what is actually possible
<mike_nostradamus> in the last week I recorded a punk band which is right out in left field for me because of my era .you know i enjoyed it i brought myself to listenning and liking the music to bad i had to wear some safety gear but I really liked what came of it!!
<danicook> good for you
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Unfamiliar Situations.'
<audiocourses> That was probably a tough gig for you Mike.
<audiocourses> I imagine
<mike_nostradamus> I also do school rock bands and they actually tell me the drums sound elec.. we dont want that.they said.so we tryed again.
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<danicook> wb resol
<audiocourses> Ah the old tom tom electic sound huh..
<audiocourses> Hi resol
<resol69> Thanks! Sorrys again!
<audiocourses> no prob
<resol69> just glad I'm on!
<danicook> do you have beavers where you are nancy?
<audiocourses> What's up your end resol?
<resol69> had a very challenging gig last night.
<audiocourses> lol  dani, that's gonna confuse..
<mike_nostradamus> I don't know why ay my age this has become a passion but its something I enjoy and get satifaction that I've accomplished something
<audiocourses> How did the gig go resol?
<mike_nostradamus> Is nancy back?
<danicook> yeah, i just realised that, espaecially as i know what a beaver is in the states, sorry nacy
<ben_m> mike - i think engineering is something that can be enjoyed at any age
<audiocourses> yes mike, recoding can be so rewarding.
<mike_nostradamus> as for beavers they are also present in the states.
<resol69> Yes, this is Nancy. I'm Back!  Last night, the sound system was even there yet, let alone set up. W
<danicook> i recently worked with a group of mentally handicapped kids, and it ws the best session i've ever had, i've never had such a good response from a playback
<mike_nostradamus> california is a three day trip from where I am
<audiocourses> No kidding mike, 3 days!
<audiocourses> We are not used to that kind of expanse here in UK.
<danicook> on a moose?
<ben_m> lol
<mike_nostradamus> No we have cars now!!
<danicook> me and chris would fall of our island in 3 days
<audiocourses> So Nancy, did you have to set up the sound system as well as engineer?
<audiocourses> lol..
* audiocourses changes topic to 'animals & transport'
<danicook> lol
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Heads up, summary time!'
<mike_nostradamus> so danni I guess our plate is full for next week
<danicook> yes, i guess so,
<audiocourses> Can I suggest we exhange e-mails in the forum perhaps?
<danicook> with pm's?
<audiocourses> Should you wish... I know Aidan would be keen as he could not make this session.
<danicook> by the way, will three be any practical pats?
<danicook> i mean parts
<audiocourses> Dani, yes, we plan to encorporate practical tasks.
<audiocourses> There will be an upload/download area
<danicook> good, i prefer hands on stuff
<audiocourses> so we can share and learn..
<danicook> good
<audiocourses> hands is the best for "real life"
<audiocourses> though we need to experience tons of research and Q/Q for the exams.
<danicook> we should do an international writing project
<audiocourses> oops
<audiocourses> Q/A - questins and answers
<resol69> Yes, my first time.  EEEK. realized we had no amp for the monitors. Tried to run an aux send to a powered mixed. There was a horrible delay. Ended up shutting them off and turning around some of the main speakers. Interesting expereince?  Don't know what caused the delay.
<resol69> test
<danicook> did it work ok with mains turned round?
<audiocourses> Sounds odd resol, you should not a delay in that situation.
<resol69> Yes, the second band was a lot happier. By the time the last band came on, it sounded a lot better!
<danicook> nice work
<mike_nostradamus> when you say upload and download will this be sound
<audiocourses> Mike, yes it will, though it could be documents also.
<mike_nostradamus> I was wondering because some of the material i could listen in my vehicle as I travel to town or work
<danicook> will we get to edit sound and so forth?
<audiocourses> Yes dani
<danicook> nice
<mike_nostradamus> yep
<audiocourses> Last year we all worked on creating some toons
<resol69> Diggitt!!
<danicook> excellent
<audiocourses> and then sharing them between us.
<mike_nostradamus> what kind of toons
<audiocourses> OK so for now
<audiocourses> can we agree on a time for the Next Live Workshop?
<audiocourses> while we are all still here
<resol69> how about the same time as this week?
<audiocourses> Good for me.
<ben_m> i'm ok with that
<mike_nostradamus> I have to check my cal. Im working next weekend
<audiocourses> dani?
<danicook> it works for me
<mike_nostradamus> If on the weekend can we do sat at night
<audiocourses> sounds good. Hopefully Aidan (ireland) will not be working as he was this week.
<resol69> Ben, thanks for your help.
<danicook> i've got a prior engagement on sat
<ben_m> no worries nancy, glad you got here in the end!
<audiocourses> OK I suggest we use the forum to confirm.
<danicook> yup
<resol69> sound good.
<mike_nostradamus> I'll contact later
<audiocourses> So are you clear about what you must do this week?
<resol69> I guess that's the part I missed!
<danicook> yes,
<audiocourses> Resol, I'll summarise on the forum for you and Aidan.
<resol69> OK, thank you!
<mike_nostradamus> if I understand we have two areas of questions (one from Chrish and one from ben
<audiocourses> That is correct Mike.
<audiocourses> There are two modules
<audiocourses> Music tech with Ben
<audiocourses> Recording Tech with me
<mike_nostradamus> I'll try my best mate!!!
<audiocourses> you will get questions form each of us eahc week.
<danicook> do we post our answers on the forum?
<audiocourses> That's all we ask for Mike.
<audiocourses> Your amswers are to be posted on the forum
<audiocourses> you use the "reply" button..
<danicook> by next sunday?
<audiocourses> remember the best thing is to create disucssion, not simply post one answer and be done.
<mike_nostradamus> are you going to counter answer our replies
<audiocourses> Post some initial thoughts and then start building and building.
<audiocourses> By the end of each study week (sunday) there should be a great deal of debate having taken place.
<audiocourses> Don't view the forum as a place for your correct homework..
<audiocourses> view it as a medium through which you can explore the topics.
<danicook> i understand
<mike_nostradamus> May the Beaver live another week in this cold weather so I can look foward to spring
<danicook> lol!
<audiocourses> Ben and myself will sumamrise and piont you in the direction of the model answers for exam purposes.
<audiocourses> lol
<mike_nostradamus> right on!!
<audiocourses> Listen it's been a pleasure to meet you all in this way.
<danicook> for me too,
<resol69> Me too, at last! Take care all!
<mike_nostradamus> me too!!
<audiocourses> You know just becuase we have this Live Workshop once a week. nothing stopping you guys organising one or two of your own
<danicook> see you all in the forums
<mike_nostradamus> Till next week!!
<mike_nostradamus> sounds good
<danicook> will the room be here without anyone registered?
<audiocourses> Yes Dani it should..
<danicook> cool
<audiocourses> the room is permanently set.
<mike_nostradamus> I gotta go bye for now!!!
<audiocourses> Cheers miks happy mooosing
<danicook> ok mike, take care, don't let the beavers bite
<audiocourses> lol
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<resol69> Next week, I'll have to catch up on what this moose thing is about!
<audiocourses> lol..
<danicook> i hope mike doesn't get a complex with allthe animal jibes, lol
<ben_m> haha
<audiocourses> english humour is so cold.. lol
<danicook> lol
<audiocourses> so cutting you could slice through some 2 inch 24 track tape.
<danicook> haha,
<danicook> and it would still splice
<audiocourses> :0
<resol69> Bye all. Til next week...
<audiocourses> See you Nancy
<ben_m> bye nancy
<danicook> bye, nice to meet you
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<danicook> as the room empties, at what point do we whistle and avoid each others gaze? lol
<ben_m> ha, well i gotta go eat so i'll see you guys later
<audiocourses> dme too..
<audiocourses> Im Hank Marvin
<danicook> lol, see you guys later then, thanks for everything
<audiocourses> welcome Dani.
<ben_m> nice to meet you dani and speak to you in the week - chris, see you in the week.
<audiocourses> OK Ben, later.
<danicook> thanks ben, speak to you soon
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<audiocourses> I'm gone to dani, I often stay connnected but Im away. see you.
<danicook> i'm waiting for the room to empty so i can steal chairs
<danicook> :-)
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