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<mike_nostradamus> hi chrish
<mike_nostradamus> Chrish what time does the live chat start and what time do you have?
<audiocourses> Hiya..
<audiocourses> it is 18:40 we start in 20 mins
<mike_nostradamus> ok has your time changed yet mine is tonight
<audiocourses> Uk went forward one forward one hours last saturday
<mike_nostradamus> ok I see i'll be back in 10
<audiocourses> ok man
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<DaniCook> hi all
<resol69> Hello all, stood morning/evening Still 10am here
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<resol69> Oops meant "good morning' not awake yet!
<Guest62623> good morning
<Guest62623> hang on, lost my nick
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<mike_nostradamus> hi ya all from a great big snow storm out here!!!
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<resol69> I hate to tell ya but it's going up to 80 here today.
<resol69> So Mike, you were able to hear my edit finally?
<mike_nostradamus> ya we get that around here also in jult for one or two days.kind of melts whats left of the snow
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<Danicook> hello again, lol
<resol69> welcome back Dani!
<mike_nostradamus> yes I listened to the snippet and much better
<Danicook> thanks, :-)
<resol69> Great! glad it worked!
<resol69> Dani, thanks for that link about Pro Tools and VST. I have it working, I just need to figure out how to record. Very helpful!
<mike_nostradamus> It took a few rties but I remembered finally how to downloadit
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<audiocourses> Hello
<ben_m> hey
<resol69> I can't seem to change the file name on there. It always comes out as "filename"
<resol69> Hi Chrish!
<Danicook> hi chris, hi ben
<mike_nostradamus> man my spelling has to improve
<resol69> Hey Ben
<ben_m> almost a full house yonight
<mike_nostradamus> hi ben
<ben_m> tonight
<Danicook> so does bens
<ben_m> haha
<Danicook> ;-)
<audiocourses> Typing erros can often be a great excuse for bad spelling...
<audiocourses> I often use it.
<Danicook> yes, i type with my nose, often comes out wrong
<resol69> Yea, we're not bad spellers, just bad typists!
<mike_nostradamus> ya I should start using that excuse too!
<mike_nostradamus> dani just watch your glasses dont fall off
<audiocourses> I's a good one Mike... (missing t see)
<Danicook> lol, thanks :-)
<mike_nostradamus> yes I see
<audiocourses> I have a headache today..
<mike_nostradamus> Oh OH
<Danicook> i have got flu, lol, been off owrk, but i'm here....just
<resol69> OH, no! I'm prone to migraines, it's not one of those is it?  Did you play rugby today?
<audiocourses> Silly sport my girlfriend says resol
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> lol
<resol69> Smart girl :)
<mike_nostradamus> Was the headache self inflicted
<resol69> Dani, hope you feel better soon!
<audiocourses> I'm drinking a cold Bud in the attempt to soften the blow..
<audiocourses> lol
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<audiocourses> Well I didn't head butt him!
<Danicook> thanks resol
<audiocourses> Yeah Dani, flu sucks, get well soon, thanks for making it here.
<Danicook> well, i missed two sessions, people might have sent a search party out for me, lol
<resol69> You can call me Nancy. Use resol as a nickname since it's usually free. It's my sorority nickname, (loser spelled backwards)
<audiocourses> We did wonder if all was well.
<audiocourses> lol I like that Nancy.. but somehow doesn't seem fitting.
<mike_nostradamus> ma n the flu is nothing around here anymore we have some maskitoe deseise now and sars
<Danicook> well, first week i was in the lake district and forgot, second week i thought it was at 8 and it was 6 lol
<resol69> LOSER! Was a popular saying at the time, I said a lot to everyone else. SInce I wasn't a loser, they spelled it backwards.
<audiocourses> oh dear dani.. never mind.
<audiocourses> you what Mike?
<Danicook> well, i've managed to catch up with most of the work, after system crash,
<Danicook> just need to add overdub to classical thing, but i'm a bit blocked at the moment, lol
<audiocourses> Sounds painful Dani...
<Danicook> the sounds of calssical and bubbling snot, lol
<ben_m> is that a double album?
<Danicook> rofl!
<ben_m> is aidan coming tonight?
<audiocourses> I'm gonna download yours now Nancy..
<resol69> By the way I have a temporary site up. muzaudio.com. There's not a lot on there yet, but you can see my logo. Let me know what you think.
<audiocourses> Not sure Ben..
<audiocourses> Nice Logo Nancy
<resol69> Thanks :)
<Danicook> good site nancy
<resol69> Thaks Dani, hopefully will get some sound on it soon!
<ben_m> yeah, looks good
<audiocourses> nancy which is your file?
<resol69> It's in my directory, it's called filename. I couldn't figure out how to change the name.
<Danicook> some of the questions were quite tough this week, covered a lot of things i knew little about
<resol69> True Dani, I think it evened out since some of them we already went over.
<mike_nostradamus> checked site looks good!
<resol69> Thanks Mike!
<Danicook> yeah, i noticed some that we had covered
<Danicook> 85 questions though, i thought i'd died and gone to hell
<resol69> I think it was test!
<audiocourses> ;)
<Danicook> of our resolve to continue living? lol
<resol69> lol
<audiocourses> Guys you are doing very well!
<audiocourses> I must stress that type of workload IS essential..
<mike_nostradamus> I'm almost done all of mine I don't want to read yours first
<resol69> So we all get gold stars? ;)
<audiocourses> You really did good for RT..
<resol69> Cool.
<Danicook> thanks chris, but i looked at monitor for so long, one of my eyes melted and i started hallucinating (for free, for a change, lol)
<audiocourses> lol
<audiocourses> This week I got a practical AND questions..
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> do you have many friends chris? lol
<audiocourses> lol..  I'm efficient!
<audiocourses> Listen to Nancy's edit
<mike_nostradamus> The beavers wont leave me alone.Im starting to see them on my screen now!! chrish did you do that
<Danicook> when this is all finished are you going to be quoted saying " ivas just following ze orderz"
<resol69> Jeez, it's not THAT bad!  lol
<audiocourses> Thanks Nancy.
<Danicook> lol
<ben_m> hehe
<audiocourses> You'll thanks us in the end!
<audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> can i just say, that the remaining unanswered synthesis questions need to be answered
<Danicook> yes, it's good practice
<audiocourses> ye ha.. I was hoping you'd say that Ben.
<Danicook> what are those?
<resol69> Yea, slackers!  :)
<ben_m> well, there's some 'patches' across both weeks that haven't been tackled
<audiocourses> Exactly Nancy.
<mike_nostradamus> that would be me!
<ben_m> no mike, theres more than one guilty party!
<Danicook> have i missed something? :(
<resol69> We're gonna need all the answers for the tests, guys.
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<Danicook> "build an additive synth using a ball of string and ahnky"
<Danicook> hanky
<ben_m> the main concern are the synthesis types need to be explored
<audiocourses> Dani I think (not just you) that the style Ben was hoping for was a more detailed essay style approach?
<ben_m> yes, thats my blue peter task
<audiocourses> Would that be fair Ben?
<mike_nostradamus> Chrish and ben question for you both How will I know the answers are right!
<ben_m> yes
<ben_m> Mike: if you make any glaring errors they will be pointed out, however,,,
<Danicook> i couldn't find much info on wavetable, only what i already knew, sorry i let everyone down :(
<audiocourses> It is up to all of us to challenge when YOU think it is in-correct.
<ben_m> sometimes rather than just correcting it is more useful when another question is asked that challenges your understanding
<ben_m> and brings you to the correct conclusion
<audiocourses> Yes Ben.
<audiocourses> This is educationally empowering.
<ben_m> sometimes you learn more having taken a wrong turn - i know a lot of back roads through badly judged shortcuts!
<ben_m> but thats my driving for you...
<mike_nostradamus> Ok!
<Danicook> lol@ben
<audiocourses> Mistakes really are a positive educational experience.
<Danicook> yes, i agree with that,
<audiocourses> It's not to be mocked.
<resol69> It's all good!
<audiocourses> So I agreee with Ben when he mentions more input!
<mike_nostradamus> Well I wish someone stars with me first on the recording bits.
<Danicook> every failure takes you nearer success
<audiocourses> yes Dani! - nicely put
<Danicook> ty
<mike_nostradamus> or defeat
<ben_m> you wouldn't say that if you were a liverpool supporter today Frown
<ben_m> anyhow, moving swiftly on...
<mike_nostradamus> I was looking at this in another way
<Danicook> muhaha,
<Danicook> obviously, living nowhere near manchester, i'm a fan
<audiocourses> I think yu are learning lots Mike..
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Football Free Zone'
<mike_nostradamus> I sure am from all sides of this its coming toghether
<Danicook> well, i'm certainly looking at it all with wide open eyes, the research alone hass made me veiw recording differently
<Danicook> and spelling
<mike_nostradamus> herehere
<ben_m> lol
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<audiocourses> That's is what is fundamentally important. Learning taking place.
<audiocourses> too many is in that one lol
<Danicook> i want to try out all these new things, but i can't
<resol69> I'm learning a lot, on recording and the tech stuff.
<audiocourses> Why Dani?
<audiocourses> Time contraints?
<Danicook> well, i want to record live drums, but i have no facility to do it
<audiocourses> Ah yeah I see where you are coming from.
<resol69> Dani, if you have garage or a friend does, that can sound pretty cool for recording drums
<Danicook> i want to mike up amps, but nobody has one and things like that
<mike_nostradamus> dani do you not have a studio at school
<Danicook> yes we have, but it's in a building near classrooms and i've been told "no live drums, on pain of death"
<mike_nostradamus> I see
<Danicook> so it's drum machines only,
<audiocourses> ah yes the education vs reality argument..  tell me about it.
<resol69> Drum machines, poo-ey!
<mike_nostradamus> there are some nice ones out there
<audiocourses> Dani, premises Staff will opewn up on weekends? or evenings?
<Danicook> i'm pressing to have an extension built, but the director is a right norbut colon, lol
<audiocourses> hehe
<ben_m> lol
<mike_nostradamus> mine are Zoom awesome unit and roland
<audiocourses> Dani you gotta push slowely and purposefully in education
<ben_m> these conflicts of interests are very common in education
<Danicook> i've got a kid from another school coming in during the holidays with a 5 piece kit,
<audiocourses> oh yes ben
<audiocourses> There ya go Dani.
<Danicook> it would have been nice to have had a go at miking a kit up first, without him watching saying "are yu sure that goes there?"
<ben_m> he's only a drummer - just remind him of that ;)
<audiocourses> It's very difficult for a manager in education (with zero audio experience) to understand the unique nature of audio in education.
<Danicook> lol
<resol69> Just pretend you know what your're doing Dani, fake him out! LOL
<audiocourses> What do you call a person who hangs around with musicians?
<ben_m> hey, dani, as a matter of interest how you gonna mic it?
<audiocourses> Good one Ben
<resol69> a drummer
<resol69> How do get a drummer to go away?
<audiocourses> This might cover one of my RT points I wanted to bring up
<audiocourses> Don't know Nancy
<audiocourses> how do you?
<Danicook> well, we've only got vocal mikes, lol, the'll have to do, one in/near the kick, one above snare, one above hats, one each side for crashes and one under each tome
<Danicook> tom
<resol69> Pay for the pizza!
<audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> you've got a few mics then! what are they, SM58s or similiar?
<audiocourses> Dani you like that under the tom sound?
<Danicook> they sound like 58's but they are chinea-wanky copies, lol
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> well, i'll try below and above and see what the guy prefers,
<ben_m> just a point i'd like to bring up - some people recommend only mic-ing drums from underneath as they claim this is the real sound of the drum (i.e. other side of the diaphragm to the side being struck)
<ben_m> mixing the 2 can induce phase problems in some cases mind
<Danicook> i'll mix all the mikes to seperate channels on the desk and as there is only drums give each mike it's own track
<audiocourses> May I talk about a drum topic for a min?
<ben_m> sure
* audiocourses changes topic to 'D R U M S'
<Danicook> yeah
<audiocourses> Ben mentioned Phase..
<audiocourses> Big issue..
<audiocourses> also note as a point of fact for those purists...
<audiocourses> the argument of putting mics under the drums etc...
<audiocourses> is ridiculous. (in my opinion)
<audiocourses> When you listen to a drummer..
<audiocourses> Do we ever lay on the floor under the drums?
<resol69> Not unless you want to go deaf :)
<audiocourses> which would amount to putting the mics under the drums to keep purists happy..
<Danicook> lol
<mike_nostradamus> can I jump in
<audiocourses> The point is, we have to create a sonic image
<audiocourses> that we are happy with (along with muso and producer)
<Danicook> you don't have this problem with drum machines, and they are rarely late and they don't hog the pizza
<audiocourses> lol
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<audiocourses> Anyway back to my initial idea.
<audiocourses> IF you do place mics under and over..
<audiocourses> which could be cool..
<audiocourses> as Ben states
<Danicook> i try to work as efficiently as possible in the studio, a DM is such a nice tools for saving time, sorry to all drummers in the world
<audiocourses> you need to listen hard for phase problems
<Danicook> sorry chris
<audiocourses> it's ok I'll come back to your point in a sec..
<audiocourses> Are we all aware of what I mean by phase problems?
<Danicook> cancelling out the frequencies?
<audiocourses> oh yes and not only
<audiocourses> The result is termed Comb Filtering
<audiocourses> Anyone know why?
<Danicook> because it simulates a comb filter?
<Danicook> where sound onlt gets through when it's at the right phase?
<ben_m> you can't argue with that logic
<audiocourses> yup generally if you look at the frequncy spectrum it would look like a comb..
<mike_nostradamus> has something to do with carrier and sideband
<audiocourses> comb filtering is when frequencies are cancelled out and multiplied
<audiocourses> No Mike
<audiocourses> lets get back to basics.
<mike_nostradamus> You lost me now
<Danicook> does it sound like flutter?
<audiocourses> images two sign waves
<audiocourses> No Dani
<Danicook> i'm off to bed then!
<Danicook> lol
<audiocourses> Sounds like phasing
<Danicook> i see
<Danicook> sweeping in and out
<audiocourses> imagine two sign waves ok?
<audiocourses> yes dani
<Danicook> sine?
<audiocourses> yes the puriest waveform possible
<audiocourses> sounds like the osciallator on the deak.
<audiocourses> or a tuning fork
<Danicook> yep
<audiocourses> a flute is similar
<audiocourses> ok Mike?
<mike_nostradamus> I'm with you
<audiocourses> this is termed a pure tone
<audiocourses> "pure tone"
<audiocourses> ...
<audiocourses> typically music and certainly drums
<audiocourses> are "complex tones"
<audiocourses> a "pure tone" is made up of ONE frequency only!
<Danicook> containing lots of frequencies and harmonics
<audiocourses> yes dani exactly,
<audiocourses> complex sounds are exactly that many more frequencies than one..
<audiocourses> ok so far all?
<resol69> Yup
<Danicook> yes
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> ok moving on
<audiocourses> I'm using "pure tones" here now to discuss phase
<audiocourses> it;s easier that way
<audiocourses> now if you look at two sign waves (pure tones) on a graph.
<audiocourses> they are said to be "in-phase" when the positive and negative Half-Cycles are lined up.
<audiocourses> do you understand this?
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<Danicook> yes, in perfect pahse would mean no audio artifacts
<resol69> Yes
<audiocourses> good.
<audiocourses> if two "in-phase" signals of the same size and frequecny are added together they
<Danicook> double the amplitude?
<audiocourses> we get a signal which is the same frequency but twice the amplitude
<audiocourses> yes dani. :)
<Danicook> woohoo
<audiocourses> now.. we are getting there
<audiocourses> you ok with that Mike?
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> ok
<audiocourses> I know resol is right?
<resol69> Yup
<audiocourses> cool
<audiocourses> now if one of our "pure tones" is INVERTED...
<audiocourses> i.e. a positive and negative cycle coincide in time and space..
<audiocourses> the output will be?
<Danicook> diminished
<resol69> cancelled out?
<audiocourses> completely
<audiocourses> complete zero output
<audiocourses> two identical signals that are out of phase output zero.
<audiocourses> identical is the key...
<audiocourses> if one if of lesser amplitude then yes dani the signal wil be diminished.
<audiocourses> ok so far?
<resol69> Yes
<Danicook> and i take itm two identical tones would be rare, so they pahe isntead, because one frequency will be faster and willonjly cancle it out at a certain point
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> yes dani..
<audiocourses> but I'l keep going ok
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<Danicook> ok
<audiocourses> you can try an experiment on your hardware or software mixing desk
<audiocourses> input one signal of positive phase in one channel, panned central
<audiocourses> push the fader up to 0db..  j
<audiocourses> in the other channel input an identical signal BUT of opposite phase..
<audiocourses> when you push the fader up on this our of phase channel
<Danicook> how do we get those tones?
<audiocourses> the volume wil actually decrease...  which is freaky!
<audiocourses> that's a freaky experience I find for "rookies"
<audiocourses> lol
<audiocourses> pushing a fader up and the sound gets quieter
<resol69> Wouldn't make sense if you didn't know about phase!
<audiocourses> :)
<ben_m> or you worked at the BBC
<audiocourses> yes Ben.. good one.. do that in a bit.
<audiocourses> Now..
<audiocourses> Dani you can get the signal from an ossilator
<mike_nostradamus> Its never happened to me yet but i"ll keep that in mind
<audiocourses> all studios should have one
<audiocourses> science dept wil have one
<Danicook> right, thank you,
<audiocourses> they have + and - terminals
<mike_nostradamus> your computer can do one for you
<audiocourses> two leads connected to output terminals...
<Danicook> can it?
<audiocourses> yes dani.
<audiocourses> this onnly works when the pans are central
<audiocourses> anyone know why?
<Danicook> because frequencies of centre would escape through?
<Danicook> off
<audiocourses> good idea.. but the thing is
<audiocourses> they are mixed electrically..
<mike_nostradamus> when center you signals are even because of stereo
<audiocourses> stereo is simply two mono channels in a mixing desk.
<audiocourses> nothing more
<audiocourses> when they are panned center the signals are mixed electrically..
<audiocourses> now when you have this silence with both faders up
<audiocourses> pan them hard left and hard right and the signal miraculously appears again
<audiocourses> lol
<audiocourses> magic huh! lol
<resol69> Funky!
<audiocourses> hehe
<audiocourses> why do we hear them now?
* audiocourses feels liek a teacher....
<resol69> Because the signal is separated into two mono channels?
<audiocourses> yes nancy!
<resol69> Woo hoo go me!
<Danicook> they are not cancelling each other out because they are not going through the bus together?
<audiocourses> the signal is no longer mixed electrically
<audiocourses> yes dani..
<Danicook> phew! thought i was thick then
<audiocourses> in fact the speakers cones are moving in opposite directions nows
<audiocourses> one is moving forward while the other is moving back
<Danicook> if you were to face the speakers towards each other, would you get the same effect?
<audiocourses> nope
<audiocourses> too many variables
<audiocourses> but I like your thought
<Danicook> air pressure and stuff?
<audiocourses> yup
<audiocourses> and room (if in one)
<audiocourses> now if you stand in the sweet spot of this phase madness
<audiocourses> your brain will make you feel nausious after a while
<audiocourses> and you won't be able to quite detect where the signal is coming from
<Danicook> didn't someone come up with an audio dampening field which did something very similar though, sampled the noise frequencies and reverseds them?
<audiocourses> (bad typing lol)
<ben_m> dani - this is used in some cars
<ben_m> to reduce engine noise - v high end cars I believe
<audiocourses> yes dani used for noise cancellations in tons of engineering circles
<Danicook> i see
<audiocourses> the fact is the brain can't understand it becuase the audio is trying to move the ear drums in opposite directions..
<audiocourses> in and out! lol
<audiocourses> doesn't occur very often in real life..
<audiocourses> however, brings us nicely back to drums..
<audiocourses> getting back to positive cycles and negative ones..
<audiocourses> we used the opposite for our analogy
<audiocourses> now if we take two identical waveforms this time
<audiocourses> i.e. positive cycles coinciding in time and space..
<audiocourses> but shift one in time...
<audiocourses> you can see that the output would vary..
<audiocourses> yes?
<resol69> OK
<audiocourses> Mike?
<Danicook> you would get a chorusing effect?
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> kind of dani yes
<audiocourses> now..
<audiocourses> when you use a mic in a room
<audiocourses> remember you get direct sound into the mic
<audiocourses> and alos bounced sound into the mic
<audiocourses> becasue the bounced sound has further to travel
<audiocourses> there will be a time shift
<audiocourses> so the cycles generally will not line up..
<audiocourses> do you get this?
* audiocourses needs a beer soon...
<ben_m> lol
<resol69> yes, the bounced sound goes into the mic later in time.
<audiocourses> yes nancy!
<audiocourses> this creating a phase shift!
<Danicook> *dani's got one. anmd takes a pull*
<resol69> Jeez, I'm still on my coffee over here!
<audiocourses> now this can even happen with close miking
<audiocourses> ok we have a mic on the snare close mic  ok..
<audiocourses> we also have overheads
<audiocourses> the snare sound goes into the direct mic and the overheads
<audiocourses> we have the potential for a phase shift
<audiocourses> to combat this (you might like the sound and don't want to move the mics) you can use your DAW and shift the overheads in time..
<audiocourses> i.e. digitally move the overhead tracks a touch..
<audiocourses> getting me?
<Danicook> of course, i didn't think of that
<Danicook> move them back or forward in time to line up the phase
<audiocourses> ya ya
<audiocourses> Hitler twang
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> is it trial and error or is there a formula?
<audiocourses> trial and error in the studio man!
<audiocourses> however there are some complex arithmatic you could ge tinto
<Danicook> lol
<ben_m> dani, you can try to predict using the speed of sound but its very hit and miss due to variables
<Danicook> no thanks
<ben_m> i.e. room
<audiocourses> I got a rule of thumb also..
<resol69> Thank goodness for DAWs then! You can just 'undo' it if it's not right
<audiocourses> EV pioneered this in the 70's (no i don't remember them but I backward read)
<Danicook> electro voice?
<audiocourses> Ev released a book called The PA Bible
<audiocourses> yes dani
<audiocourses> it's a ferkin good read..
<audiocourses> might be an online version dunno..
<Danicook> i'll have to look for it
<ben_m> oh i remember, 'the last soundcheck' and the gospel according to pa-ul...froan
<ben_m> groan
<audiocourses> anyway, to avoid the trial and error and complex maths that only people with no mates like.
<audiocourses> lol
<audiocourses> they championed this.
<audiocourses> when miking up...
<Danicook> just got the joke ben, lol
<audiocourses> with multiplemic
<audiocourses> oops
<audiocourses> with multiple mics
<audiocourses> you should use a distance of four times the distance (of mic to source) between the mics
<resol69> I thought it was 3? 3:1 rule?
<audiocourses> it is these days
<audiocourses> they liked 4
<resol69> Ah-ah
<Danicook> because of better mike patterns?
<audiocourses> probably.
<ben_m> god, sound theses days
<audiocourses> Can I have a beer now?
<ben_m> hehe
<Danicook> yes chris, well done,
<ben_m> can i bring some points up quickly
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> you've passed
<audiocourses> yeah ben
<ben_m> ok, chris has pretty well covered the phase issue particularly during the recording process...
<ben_m> however, there are a few other considerations that are caused by phase
<ben_m> firstly, what chris has pointed out reinforces the importance of connecting the polarity of your speakers correctly - this is a VERY common error
<ben_m> symptoms of this include poor bass response (but variable due to listening position)
<ben_m> as well as a poorly defined stereo image
<ben_m> so every system you use it is worth checking for polarity correctness (PC) before the session
<ben_m> understand?
<resol69> yes
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<Danicook> i assume you mean make sure the positive goes to the positive on both the speakers?
<ben_m> yes dani that's right
<Danicook> cool
<ben_m> you'd be suprised how many times this happens in all kinds of scenarios
<audiocourses> yes
<Danicook> especially with uncoloured wiring
<audiocourses> can I indicate a good way to check
<ben_m> yes
<audiocourses> take a small battery
<audiocourses> 1.5v no more
<audiocourses> two leads
<audiocourses> connect them to speakers terminals
<audiocourses> the spaker will move forward when the positive is connected to positive on battery
<audiocourses> otherwise it will move back
<audiocourses> easy way to check.
<ben_m> i resuscitated a frog in similiar circumstances, but thats another story
<ben_m> back to phase
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> rofl@ben
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<audiocourses> sorry ben I sounded a little "shipway" then
<ben_m> lol@chris
<ben_m> the second consideration of phase is dueing the mixdown process - if you are mixing for radio,
<ben_m> think of your target audience
<ben_m> think of building sites, doctors surgeries, shopping malls etc
<ben_m> and low quality internet feeds
<ben_m> one thing they have in common is that many of these are mono - think of small transistor radios
<ben_m> so, you may have mixed your track and been happy with the results in your studio
<ben_m> but when it is summed to mono electrically you may have phase problems that you didnt know were there
<ben_m> as chris mentioned earlier, when working in stereo the brain can play tricks on you
<Danicook> so for radio, mixwith less stereo spread? and check for phase by going mono?
<ben_m> more check for mono compatability
<audiocourses> definately
<Danicook> good tip
<ben_m> so many 'amateur' tracks fall foul of this
<audiocourses> Broadcast industry actually have phase meters on stereo bus
<Danicook> so what do you do if you check it and it's phasing and you aren't using DAW?
<ben_m> Incidentally, this is how the karoake/voice remover works on cheap systems
<ben_m> if you're not using a DAW you could look for mono button on desk
<ben_m> many desks have this feature
<ben_m> many also have a MONO SUM output
<ben_m> which allows you to connect a single speaker
<resol69> So if you test and you have a phase problem, how do you fix it?
<ben_m> ok, there are several different ways
<Danicook> thanks nancy,
<ben_m> the best way (but most time consuming) is to track down the individual track(s) that are causing the problem
<Danicook> could you eq pahse out, by changing the frequencies?
<ben_m> very often it is only 1 or 2 tracks that are rogues
<ben_m> you could try eq-ing, but that is very hit and miss and not suitable if it changes character of sound too much
<Danicook> ok
<ben_m> you could try delaying parts by a few ms, but again not great
<ben_m> however, what you will find is that when testing for mono, if there is a problem it will manifest in a part disappearing
<ben_m> quite often
<ben_m> this makes identification easier
<ben_m> this is most common with stereo parts obviously
<ben_m> especially samples
<audiocourses> You can even hear that with some "commercical" releases.
<ben_m> yes you can
<audiocourses> Target audience really is the key as Ben stated.
<ben_m> yes, if you're mixing for 5.1 mono compatability doesnt really come into it although stereo/2.1 may
* audiocourses changes topic to '20 mins and countdown'
<Danicook> is countdown on tonight? lol
<ben_m> also, remember that many connectors can be wired out of phase (i.e. XLR, stereo jacks)
<audiocourses> Goood point..
<ben_m> who wants to be a millionaire is
<Danicook> lol
<ben_m> ensure all your connectors are wired uniformly
<audiocourses> Lost on the US and Canadians..
<Danicook> true, :)
<ben_m> who wants to be a beaver is on tonight
<ben_m> !
<mike_nostradamus> lol
<Danicook> they get millionaire though don't they?
<audiocourses> do they?
<resol69> We get our version of it.
<ben_m> yeah, i think they do - they get the weakest link too - good riddance robinson
<audiocourses> lol exports...
<Danicook> i think millionaire is the uk's biggest export, apert from illegal arms deals
<ben_m> hehe
<audiocourses> Guys
<mike_nostradamus> I don't watch tv that much have no cable and have to climb a pole to use the tele
<mike_nostradamus> yes
<audiocourses> This weeks is more questions + a practical task..
<audiocourses> Let's go there for a bit
<Danicook> this has been the best live session yet, i've learnt some important stuff
<audiocourses> Glad to hear that Dani
<ben_m> the last 2 were better! lol...joke
<Danicook> yw
<Danicook> lol
* audiocourses changes topic to 'Vocal edit'
<Danicook> prob cos i wasn't there, lol, got more work done
<audiocourses> The practical task can be hardware of software based
<audiocourses> Up to you..
<audiocourses> It's based around gates and compressors, and lots of edits
<audiocourses> I've uploaded the source file
<Danicook> ok
<audiocourses> week6.zip (i think)
<audiocourses> yup just checked..
<audiocourses> in week6 folder
<audiocourses> It's a vocal recording full of mistakes and coughs splutters... background noise
<audiocourses> Your task is to clean it up ready for broadcast
<Danicook> forgot how to find the file
<audiocourses> also note i would like your version as an mp3 again
<audiocourses> http://www.audiocourses.com/explorer/
<audiocourses> it's 18MB nancy so might be a job for work..
<ben_m> guys, i will also post you a practical this week - details in forum tomorrow
<resol69> Definitly!
<resol69> So did you guys get to listen to the first edit I was finally able to post?
<audiocourses> Also note I have a phase text audio track I can upload if you want it.
<Danicook> i haven't yet nancy, i'll get it after i get the new task file
<audiocourses> it's says "in phase in phase" "out of phase out of phase"
<audiocourses> lol
<ben_m> written instructions available on request
<ben_m> :)
<audiocourses> I listened to it Nancy
<audiocourses> I like it.... but I do detect much clipping.
<Danicook> does anyone here use cubase sx or sl?
<ben_m> yes, i use SX dani
<audiocourses> SX here dani
<Danicook> isn't it wonderfull?
<resol69> Really? It didn't show any clipping in Pro Tools.
<audiocourses> How did you convert to mp3?
<ben_m> its great dani - everything nuendo should have been ;)
<resol69> I Used the bounced to disk feature in Pro Tools, you can bounce to mp3.
<Danicook> it's everything i've ever wanted from a DAW, the automation is to die for
<audiocourses> Apart from multi-channel ben?
<Danicook> mutli-channel?
<ben_m> yes, although I do believe that is gonna be implemented in SX 2.0 - cue lynch mob of nuendo users
<ben_m> yes, 5.1 et al
<audiocourses> Hmmm well i got lots of clipping.. something to check out nancy
<audiocourses> Somewhere it is clipping in conversion..
<resol69> yup. will do
<audiocourses> I imagine
<Danicook> you mean that you can't code into 5.1?
<ben_m> dani - you probably know this but there is a mono button below the master fader in SX/SL to check for phase problems
<ben_m> you can't do 5.1 on my version but there have been updates
<Danicook> yeah, never used though, lol, will do for sure now, not that anything i produce will ever get on radio, lol
<ben_m> i dunno dani, your stuff sounds good and you've been on TV so think of all those mono speakers blasting out your track!
<Danicook> i've got the surround mixer, but it outputs to 6 independant track that have to be comoiled
<Danicook> compiled
<Danicook> lol
<ben_m> ;0
<ben_m> ;)
<ben_m> i personally don't use 5.1 yet as I dont have facilities for mastering to necesarry medium (i.e DVD)
<Danicook> i don't either, but we've just started didgital video editing at our place and it won't be long before some bright spark asks me to make a dvd, lol
<ben_m> hehe, dont you just love those customers
<Danicook> lol
<audiocourses> he he
<ben_m> an engineer friend of mine has done a lot of 5.1 and it sounds great
<ben_m> easy to overdo though
<Danicook> my customers are kids and no, i hate the lot of them, lol
<ben_m> like george martin overdid stereo with the beatles
<ben_m> hehe
<mike_nostradamus> danni I just got my new work station with digital imaging
<audiocourses> Hey don't slag off the godfather..
<Danicook> excellent mike, did you go mac or pc?
<ben_m> well, you gotta admit he really jumped in at the deep end with the stereo on revolver and all that
<ben_m> but someone had to do it
<mike_nostradamus> I had to go pc  but it a good system H/P
<ben_m> and he had it nailed pretty quick
<audiocourses> Hindsight is wonderful   lol..... I think I would have at the time.
<Danicook> i prefer pc anyway mike, good choice
<ben_m> i love george martin mind...platonically
<audiocourses> lol
<Danicook> lol@ben
<ben_m> he must be the best 'all-round' producer ever
<audiocourses> He is "The Daddy"...
<Danicook> what about tevor horn? martin never did "video killed...."
<ben_m> not to be confused with big daddy - he was a shit mixodwn engineer ;)
<ben_m> horn is also very good
<Danicook> lol@ben
<audiocourses> OK phase check track is now uploaded also.
<audiocourses> "Trev" has done some good shit man sure.
<Danicook> i'm an eno fan
<ben_m> i've got to go now guys - i'll post a new set of questions for you tomrrow
<Danicook> i'm into etherial, even if i can't spell it
<audiocourses> Ben cheers dude.
<ben_m> ee you guys later
<Danicook> seeya ben, thanks for this week
<mike_nostradamus> Same here I have to go and I'm not sure if I'll make it nextweekend I have to work
<Danicook> what does it say about brits that we are sat here doing course work at 9 pm on a saturday night!
<audiocourses> Maybe we can alter the day/time..
<mike_nostradamus> Its my first!!
* ben_m has left #audiocourses
<Danicook> my gf isn't happy, lol
<audiocourses> It says we understand people in other countries need a suitable time.
<audiocourses> Therfore we are flexiblee lol
<mike_nostradamus> maybe I work till 3 pm my timeI can be home for 3:30
<Danicook> i can feel her eyes burning into the back of my head, lol
<audiocourses> Tel her to go to the kitchen. (joke Nancy)
<Danicook> and she's listening to britney, god help me
<resol69> 6Sometimes I forget I'm the only chic here!
<audiocourses> You guys will love the audio track this week.. lol can't wait for the feedback! lol
<Danicook> though it's an improvment on "big john"
<mike_nostradamus> well buy!!!have a nice week!!
<Danicook> who's the vocalist?
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<audiocourses> Can't remember his name... it;s the content that is amusing
<audiocourses> So see you all, have a great week.
<Danicook> thanks chris, see you next week
<resol69> BYE ALL!
<Danicook> by nancy, have good week
<resol69> You too!
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