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I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals

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mark_h_newman
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

For some time now, I have been trying to get that lovely rounded sound that you hear on the vocals of professional recordings. No matter how loud the singer sings, the high notes sound clear, unclipped and not harsh.

To this end I recently invested in a Nova Studio Condenser from M-Audio assuming that recording with my Dynamic Mic, as I have up till now, was part of the reason for the naff vocals.

However, I was dismayed to find that the problem has followed me, despite my upgrade in microphone. Yes, all the Ss's and T's are now crystal clear but the moment I hit a high note and give it some power, it's almost as if the microphone cannot cope and the signal clips very slightly, just enough to give it that harsh sounding quality I was trying so hard to get away from. I tried turning the mic input down, thinking that maybe the input was too much for my sound card -no, it wasn't the sound card, I tried standing further away from the Mic -but then I just sound off mic, I tried putting a piece of paper between me and the mic and although it did soften the harshness, it made the vocals as if someone had put a low pass filter on them (which is exactly what the paper is).

What am I doing wrong? Will adding a Pop filter help?
Post Tue Jun 14, 2005 4:59 pm
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AUdIoCoUrSeS



Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
Re: I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by mark_h_newman
For some time now, I have been trying to get that lovely rounded sound that you hear on the vocals of professional recordings. No matter how loud the singer sings, the high notes sound clear, unclipped and not harsh.

To this end I recently invested in a Nova Studio Condenser from M-Audio assuming that recording with my Dynamic Mic, as I have up till now, was part of the reason for the naff vocals.

However, I was dismayed to find that the problem has followed me, despite my upgrade in microphone. Yes, all the Ss's and T's are now crystal clear but the moment I hit a high note and give it some power, it's almost as if the microphone cannot cope and the signal clips very slightly, just enough to give it that harsh sounding quality I was trying so hard to get away from. I tried turning the mic input down, thinking that maybe the input was too much for my sound card -no, it wasn't the sound card, I tried standing further away from the Mic -but then I just sound off mic, I tried putting a piece of paper between me and the mic and although it did soften the harshness, it made the vocals as if someone had put a low pass filter on them (which is exactly what the paper is).

What am I doing wrong? Will adding a Pop filter help?


I'm sure this is a "clipping" problem, you know the gain being TOO high.. You are correct to turn down the gain, or rather set the gain for the highest possible signal level the mic will receive, then leave it. If the quiet bits you sing are then too quiet, you'll need a compressor to bring them up.

Also use of a limiter set at a high threshold (just under your max level) will help avoid clipping.

Hope that helps.
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Post Wed Jun 15, 2005 10:34 am
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mark_h_newman
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
Re: I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

Thanks for the tip. My Microphone goes straight into the sound card (a SW1000XG) without any pre-amplifier, so I set the soundcard's gain to MIC level.

As a result of your suggestion, I changed the input level of the soundcard to LINE and tried again. Of course this recorded the mic very weekly and I knew I'd have to amplify the signal digitally afterwards, which would amplify noise too. However, disregarding the noise, I still got this same clipping.

I realize that there are many faults with my experiment and that all the post-recording amplifying must have also played havoc with the signal. I remember reading somewhere that recording at LINE level gives you much more dynamic range (which is what I'm looking for) but this probably means I need some sort of pre-amplifier. (All I have at the moment is a 48V power supply powering the MIC)

What is the recommended path for the MIC signal?
Should it simply be MIC > Preamp > Soundcard, or is there some better setup? Maybe I need some sort of analogue limiter too before the input to the Soundcard.

How far away from the MIC should I be standing?
I'm standing about an arms length away at the moment. I've been in studios where they record the soloist very close the mic, but that just causes too much clipping with my setup!

How does the singer's distance from the MIC affect the tone of what is recorded?
I assume there is more bass in the signal the closer you stand.

Thanks for the advice.
Mark.
Post Fri Jun 17, 2005 5:29 am
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AUdIoCoUrSeS



Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
Re: I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

quote:
Originally posted by mark_h_newman
Thanks for the tip. My Microphone goes straight into the sound card (a SW1000XG) without any pre-amplifier, so I set the soundcard's gain to MIC level.

As a result of your suggestion, I changed the input level of the soundcard to LINE and tried again. Of course this recorded the mic very weekly and I knew I'd have to amplify the signal digitally afterwards, which would amplify noise too. However, disregarding the noise, I still got this same clipping.

I realize that there are many faults with my experiment and that all the post-recording amplifying must have also played havoc with the signal. I remember reading somewhere that recording at LINE level gives you much more dynamic range (which is what I'm looking for) but this probably means I need some sort of pre-amplifier. (All I have at the moment is a 48V power supply powering the MIC)

What is the recommended path for the MIC signal?
Should it simply be MIC > Preamp > Soundcard, or is there some better setup? Maybe I need some sort of analogue limiter too before the input to the Soundcard.

How far away from the MIC should I be standing?
I'm standing about an arms length away at the moment. I've been in studios where they record the soloist very close the mic, but that just causes too much clipping with my setup!

How does the singer's distance from the MIC affect the tone of what is recorded?
I assume there is more bass in the signal the closer you stand.

Thanks for the advice.
Mark.


Let's get to the bottom fo this.

1. what is your PC specification
2. what is the sound card you have
3. what software are you using for recording
4. what sampling and bit rate are you running the sound card/software at, do you know?

Sounds bizzare, if this is not related to digital clipping due to overload.

However here are your answers.

What is the recommended path for the MIC signal?
MIC > Preamp > Soundcard (pre amp can be a mixing desk, also the pre amp is not necessary if the sound card comes with a good amp)

How far away from the MIC should I be standing?
Close is good for intimacy, if it clips it has to be TOO much gain.

How does the singer's distance from the MIC affect the tone of what is recorded?
Massively, especially if the mic has what is known as a "proximity effect" which boosts the bass the closer the source is. Also further away will mean you will potentially have more room sound in the mic.

I'm, aware you switched inputs, MIC input is the correct one with the MIC fader moved to reduced this clipping, or yes, buy a good pre-amp/interface which would probably solve the issue.
_________________
It's all in the ears. - Learn the concepts not the software. Audio Courses is a way into the music business for you
Post Fri Jun 17, 2005 6:25 am
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mark_h_newman
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
Re: I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

1. what is your PC specification
Intel Pentium IV 2.80GHz with 256Megs of RAM

2. what is the sound card you have
Yamaha SW1000XG

3. what software are you using for recording
Cakewalk Pro Audio 9.0.3.

4. what sampling and bit rate are you running the sound card/software at, do you know?
Sampling rate: 44.1KHz
Bitrate: 16bits

I am pretty sure it must be clipping as it certainly sounds like it. Is there any way I can send you an example so that you can hear it for yourself?

The only thing that concerns me is it clips only at high frequencies and the part that clips is not necessarily the loudest part of the signal, it is simply high in pitch.

I need to get myself a preamp and try it properly on the LINE input to see if that helps.
Post Sat Jun 18, 2005 8:35 pm
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mark_h_newman
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Joined: 02 Jun 2005
Posts: 6
Re: I am having a problem with harsh sounding vocals  Reply with quote  

I tried recording with a Pre-Amplifier. It seems to have worked. I can now stand really close to the mic and the sound doesn't clip. For really loud notes, I move back a bit.

Thanks for the tip.
Post Mon Jun 20, 2005 4:17 am
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