AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Live Workshop - 031005 |
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kristianeliasson: I would really like to learn that!
jaminuk: maybe we'll get a chance to do some kind of basic mastering practical at some point
iheartmyjennifer: that'd be fun
rbro100: that'd be useful
mrbisto: Well...
andy_barber_wales: that would be cool
mrbisto: that leads on nicely from the practical this week that you had, no?
rbro100: yeh
mrbisto: Perhaps we should discuss how that actually went, did you all complete it? It's a challenging job that.
iheartmyjennifer: I didn't like how mine turned out
rbro100: Gave it a go
andy_barber_wales: took a couple of days
rbro100: Some bit rubbish others alright
mrbisto: Can take a long long time... whatd did you all find the hard part to be?
acousticalweaponsdivision: the drums
kristianeliasson: the voice and the snare
acousticalweaponsdivision: and the bass guitar
rbro100: cutting out the breathing vocals and sax
rbro100: took ages, bad software
mrbisto: hehe it's interested that eh? eveyone has a different view of what tha hard bits was..
mrbisto: Andrew did you have a go too?
mrbisto: oh sorry i see you did..
andy_barber_wales: yep
andy_barber_wales: sorry
andy_barber_wales: working out which tracks
kevbee222 has joined the conference.
andy_barber_wales: correspond to which drum?
rbro100: there was some nice bits to play with though
acousticalweaponsdivision: i thought there was no hi-hat track to begin with but it was hiding in several of the tracks
iheartmyjennifer: I lost the snare track and then had to redo it when I found it
rbro100: There was a hihat track was there not?
iheartmyjennifer: yeah the hi hat was a bit tricky
acousticalweaponsdivision: it seemed to be in the snare and cymbal tracks
rbro100: I had a hihat on it's own (with a little spill from others) but mainly hihat
andy_barber_wales: wouldnt have known to reverse phase of snare track a couple of weeks ago
rbro100: At least thats what I thought it was!
iheartmyjennifer: why were there two or three tracks that didn't have anything on them?
acousticalweaponsdivision: anyone use a drum replacer?
kristianeliasson: I used to blend on the kick
acousticalweaponsdivision: i used drumagog on the snare and kick drum
acousticalweaponsdivision: but had a little of the original snare and kick track in there too
rbro100: how did everyone go about mixing?
iheartmyjennifer: Drums>Bass>keyboard>guitar>vocals>sax>percussion
acousticalweaponsdivision: did my mix in Reason 3, was a bit of an experiment as i'd never really mixed anything with that many tracks in Reason before
acousticalweaponsdivision: kind of built it up an instrument at a time
rbro100: Whats reason 3? Is it good?
kevbee222: i have 2 .its great
andy_barber_wales has joined the conference.
acousticalweaponsdivision: 3 is better, the combinator device makes so much more possible in Reason
acousticalweaponsdivision: plus it has a much better compressor and other mastering devices
acousticalweaponsdivision: the compressor in 2 and 2.5 was a bit shite really
jaminuk: brb
rbro100: brb?
iheartmyjennifer: Be Right Back
rbro100: gotcha
iheartmyjennifer:
rbro100: did anyone think the backing singer was rubbish?
iheartmyjennifer: yep
kristianeliasson: yes...I doubled the track to try and make it bigger...
rbro100: he should of stuck to playing sax!
kevbee222: ye
kristianeliasson:
rbro100: I doubled it too, + added chorus to right side
jaminuk: back
kristianeliasson: hehe same here...
rbro100: his sax playing wasn't much better
rbro100: very breathy
rbro100: airy
iheartmyjennifer: not very "hot"
rbro100:
acousticalweaponsdivision: yeah there was quite a bit of breathing in that track
rbro100: smoked 60 a day since he was 3
kevbee222: i thought the lead voice was great
acousticalweaponsdivision: how dare he require oxygen
rbro100: Bloody musicians
acousticalweaponsdivision: hehe
jaminuk: so have you all uploaded your mixes?
rbro100: yep
acousticalweaponsdivision: mines up there
andy_barber_wales: yep
rbro100: coudn't get a good sound on the keyboard at start
rbro100: thats the biggest prob I found
jaminuk: we'll have a listen to them in a minute - just waiting for chris to return from a connection issue
acousticalweaponsdivision: was a bit of crackle and a few pops in that organ track
rbro100: At the start?
acousticalweaponsdivision: yeah
iheartmyjennifer: yeah there were
iheartmyjennifer: There was also some hum on certain tracks also
jaminuk: right it looks like we're going to have to crack on without chris i'm afraid - network issues
rbro100: Did it not have a lot to do with the sound used
rbro100: ?
jaminuk: who wants to volunteer to have their track listened to first?
iheartmyjennifer: You can get mine
iheartmyjennifer: I don't care
rbro100: Get it over with then!!!!
rbro100: mine I mean
jaminuk: right, iheart... first
rbro100: do we have to do anything?
jaminuk: yeah if you can all point yourt browsers to the 'upload station'
iheartmyjennifer: alright
jaminuk: everyone grabbing the track?
iheartmyjennifer: uh huh
kristianeliasson: which folder?
jaminuk: Kepano(iheatmyjennifer)
iheartmyjennifer: Kepano(iheartmyjennifer)
jaminuk: !!
kristianeliasson: found it!
jaminuk: what speakers you got use to mix with?
iheartmyjennifer: Edirol
iheartmyjennifer: IMA-10A
jaminuk: they sound like they are probably bass-light - are they quite small?
iheartmyjennifer: yeah not too big
iheartmyjennifer: it's all I could afford on a piano teacher's budget
iheartmyjennifer: I can crank the bass on them
jaminuk: what you find with smaller speakers that are a tad bass light is that you automatically compensate in the mix
iheartmyjennifer: I just kinda have it how they came from the factory
iheartmyjennifer: alrighty
jaminuk: but on larger speakers mixes sound a little more bassy
iheartmyjennifer: is the bass too heavy on that end?
acousticalweaponsdivision: listening now
jaminuk: so whats everyones opinions on iheart... mix so far?
iheartmyjennifer: I don't like it
iheartmyjennifer: but that' just me
jaminuk: could you expand on why you don't like it?
iheartmyjennifer: O dpm
acousticalweaponsdivision: bass sounds fine on my speakers
iheartmyjennifer: well...
rbro100: mine too
kristianeliasson: bass sounds good
iheartmyjennifer: It feels like the voice is out of phase but when I checked it it seemed fine
iheartmyjennifer: it also didn't travel well when I tried it on another stereo
jaminuk: in what ways did you feel like it didn't travel well?
iheartmyjennifer: It didn't have that punchy full sound I'm going for
jaminuk: right - i'd argue that the bottom end could be tightened up somewhat
iheartmyjennifer: definatly
iheartmyjennifer: the voice also didn't feel right
jaminuk: how about stereo imaging - did you do much with that?
iheartmyjennifer: as far as panning and what not?
jaminuk: yeah
iheartmyjennifer: yeah I've got a diagram out of a book that I tried to somewhat folllow
iheartmyjennifer: the book is The Art of MIxing Second Edition
jaminuk: right
iheartmyjennifer: by David Gibson
jaminuk: those 'mixing maps' are quite useful
iheartmyjennifer: good book if you can find it everyone!
iheartmyjennifer:
iheartmyjennifer: but the low end didn't feel right like you said
jaminuk: well i know that the bassists sound isn't too defined
jaminuk: and also listen to the relationship between the kick drum and the bass guitar
acousticalweaponsdivision: ride cymbal is a little loud near the end
iheartmyjennifer: the musician?
jaminuk: the bassist in question has an ibanez that is quite 'muddy' sounding
iheartmyjennifer: as far as what?
iheartmyjennifer: so you think more clarity then on the higher end?
rbro100: yeah I didn't much like the sound of that in the original (ride)
jaminuk: well less 'mud' / more clarity
iheartmyjennifer: i see
jaminuk: also listen to the kick/bass gtr relationship
iheartmyjennifer: okay
jaminuk: the kick can only produce one 'note' right
iheartmyjennifer: note?
jaminuk: so using eq try to find the fundamental of the kick drum
jaminuk: yeah the kick drum can only really produce one pitch
iheartmyjennifer: oh I see
iheartmyjennifer: so that's the one I need to find and give it its spot in the mix?
jaminuk: often its helpful to notch the fundamental of the kick drum (i.e. 80-120Hz) out of the bass guitar by a couple of dBs
iheartmyjennifer: okay
jaminuk: or you can use sidechaining to duck the bass guitar when the kick comes in
jaminuk: you've got quite good clarity throughout though
rbro100: Does that make them sound tighter?
jaminuk: yes it does
iheartmyjennifer: overall what do you think of the mix?
jaminuk: well the key to a track like this is the vocals
iheartmyjennifer: okay
iheartmyjennifer: more prominence?
jaminuk: they are certainly audible and not too buried by other instruments
jaminuk: but they do sound a little 'thin'
iheartmyjennifer: yeah I thought so
jaminuk: did you use any processing on the vocals like compression or an 'exciter'?
iheartmyjennifer: no not really
iheartmyjennifer: I'm not quite sure where that stuff is in my program much less how to use it
rbro100: exciter/enhancer adds harmonics does it not?
jaminuk: yes they do
jaminuk: hear them on pop vocals all the time
rbro100: confused with eq sometimes though
jaminuk: well i think you've done a good job overall - vox could probably be a couple of dB higher, or compressed suitably
iheartmyjennifer: alrighty
iheartmyjennifer: thank yuo
jaminuk: and the low end is a tad flabby but that is down to the source material
iheartmyjennifer:
jaminuk: i think everyone will struggle with that
jaminuk: everyone give iheart... a round of applause!
rbro100: bravo!!!
iheartmyjennifer: thanks everyone
rbro100:
andy_barber_wales: well done
kristianeliasson: bravo!
acousticalweaponsdivision: golfers clap for that man
iheartmyjennifer: lol
jaminuk: ok who wants to go next
jaminuk: lol @ awd
rbro100: I give it a shot
jaminuk: ok
iheartmyjennifer: which folder?
rbro100: russell brown
rbro100: AWD just downloaded reason3, looks good!
kevbee222 has left the conference.
rbro100: Comeon kevbee222 it's not that bad!!!
jaminuk: he's legged it!
andy_barber_wales: lol
rbro100: cheeky bugger
jaminuk: ha
rbro100: changed the synth solo a little (not done well)
jaminuk: playing now
jaminuk: did you use any compression on the stereo bus or in a wave editor on the final mix?
rbro100: a little, is it that clear?
jaminuk: yeah
rbro100: sorry
jaminuk: oh don't apologise
jaminuk: what speakers are you using?
rbro100: only on some of the singers notes
acousticalweaponsdivision: sounds a bit muddy on my speakers
rbro100: 9.99 argos numbers
rbro100: yamaha
jaminuk: ns10s?
iheartmyjennifer: the voice sounds good here but the drums sound kinda far awayu
rbro100: they're that bad they don't even have numbers
jaminuk: ha
jaminuk: right theres not a lot of drum in the mix is there
jaminuk: little high freq. content
jaminuk: this can make sounds appear distant
jaminuk: as can reverb
jaminuk: (i.e. on the sax )
rbro100: didn't lie the sax much
iheartmyjennifer: Idon't think anybody did
rbro100: like*
rbro100: I set the drums first
acousticalweaponsdivision: hehe damn that sax player
rbro100: Friends with producer
rbro100: then added bass with bass srum only
rbro100: drum*
rbro100: added singer next
rbro100: added ever instrument one at a time trying not to take away from singer
rbro100: tried to add in bongo solo but to not much effect
jaminuk: whats everyones feelings on this mix then?
iheartmyjennifer: drums are kinda far
kristianeliasson: Sounds compressed'
acousticalweaponsdivision: its ok, a little muddy
andy_barber_wales has joined the conference.
rbro100: I'm away for a fag!!!!
rbro100: Only kidding, cheers good to know
jaminuk: it does sound very compressed on my speakers
acousticalweaponsdivision: yeah on the quieter bits some tracks stand out more than when there is more going on
acousticalweaponsdivision: like the bongos
rbro100: I put them in specially
rbro100: took out the singer
jaminuk: if you listen to the drum roll at the start of the song and then the first couple of beats of the bar afterwards you can hear compression 'pump'
rbro100: so you can!
jaminuk: getting used to the 'sound' of compression is very important
jaminuk: looking at the waveform in wavelab it is reasonably hot but there are still some peaks - looks like it was compressed a bit but with a reasonable attack time in the comp
jaminuk: anyone else got any comments?
andy_barber_wales: like the way sax solo stands out
acousticalweaponsdivision: yeah it does kind of stand out from the rest of the mix actually
rbro100: thats doubled at the end with reverb to fade out (so is the singer same point)
rbro100: the first small sax solo
kristianeliasson: Are you using a long delay on the voice?
rbro100: two minuets and I'll tell you
andy_barber_wales: lol
jaminuk: whilst russ is looking at that - who volunteers to go next?
kristianeliasson: I can
jaminuk: ok
rbro100: No Kris, a cut in the bass, noise gate and compressor (used wrongly!!!) Little reverb (doubled in parts)
rbro100: Ben, overall OK or needing work?
kristianeliasson: I heard the voice echoing back...
jaminuk: well again the vocals are audible and certainly sound better at the end of the track
jaminuk: the rhythm section def need bringing to the front of the soundstage though
rbro100: Thats in a different track (one I put in)
jaminuk: also the compression sounds a little heavy at places
jaminuk: but a good effort!
jaminuk: well done
jaminuk: round of applause
iheartmyjennifer: woo hoo!!!!!!!
acousticalweaponsdivision:
andy_barber_wales: bo
kristianeliasson: Bravo!
rbro100: Kris it actuallt has overdrive on it (a little)
kristianeliasson: aha
jaminuk: ok if everyone can grab kris from the polarman folder
acousticalweaponsdivision: Kris, is your uploaded mix different to the one you sent me the other day?
kristianeliasson: yes
kristianeliasson: I worked a little bit more on it
acousticalweaponsdivision: ok, downloading now
jaminuk: listening now
kristianeliasson: ok
jaminuk: good drum sound
acousticalweaponsdivision: i like the reverb on the voices
kristianeliasson: hehe alot there...
iheartmyjennifer: very nice drums
rbro100: sounds good
acousticalweaponsdivision: nice and clear too
andy_barber_wales: crispy hihat
iheartmyjennifer: I like just a tad bit more low end
kristianeliasson: lot of eq
iheartmyjennifer: the mid frequencies are a little too high for my tastes but I LOVE the clarity of the mix
kristianeliasson: more bass?
iheartmyjennifer: yeah
acousticalweaponsdivision: i like the way the guitar sounds more prominent than the organ parts
kristianeliasson: I was afraid to rise the bass
iheartmyjennifer: yeah it's always hard to tell
iheartmyjennifer: the guitar does sound good!
acousticalweaponsdivision: got the high end of the bass in there too
kristianeliasson: I liked the guitar groove
acousticalweaponsdivision: a little reverb on the guitar too isnt there?
iheartmyjennifer: man! I'm very impressed
kristianeliasson: yes
jaminuk: did you use any exciters r is this all eq kris?
kristianeliasson: and small delay
kristianeliasson: well I used L1 on kick and bass
acousticalweaponsdivision: sounds even better than the mix you sent me a few days ago
kristianeliasson: to make the kick drum and bass go together
kristianeliasson: good alex...right direction
jaminuk: did you route kick and bass to a group and limit the submix>
kristianeliasson: yes
jaminuk: it is a very good mix
jaminuk: pat on the back!
kristianeliasson: hehe thanks
rbro100: great
andy_barber_wales: nice one!
iheartmyjennifer: wow
acousticalweaponsdivision: a foaming pint of ale for that man
jaminuk: haha
kristianeliasson: hehe great Ale!
jaminuk: right anyone else got a mix up they wish to be analysed?
andy_barber_wales: hard one to follow
acousticalweaponsdivision: do mine if you want
jaminuk: ok
acousticalweaponsdivision: *runs and hides*
acousticalweaponsdivision: its in the thx1138 folder
rbro100: Oh, is that you? I was wondering wht thx1138 was never hear on a sunday night!
rbro100: *why
acousticalweaponsdivision: hehe
jaminuk: i thought it was the sound system used in george lucas films
kristianeliasson: alex is it the same as you snet me the other day?
kristianeliasson: sent
acousticalweaponsdivision: yes
kristianeliasson: ok
acousticalweaponsdivision: thx1138 was george lucas' first film
rbro100: never seen it whats it about?
kristianeliasson: thats right
jaminuk: listening now
jaminuk: everyone getting/listening to this track
jaminuk: ?
kristianeliasson: yes!
rbro100: just got it
acousticalweaponsdivision: kind of nightmare future film
jaminuk: what speakers did you use AWD?
acousticalweaponsdivision: got some labtec surround sound things
rbro100: what effects are on the snare?
andy_barber_wales: playing now
acousticalweaponsdivision: used drumagog to replace the snare then did a little eq to raise the high end
acousticalweaponsdivision: a little compression too
jaminuk: can certainly hear the HF boost
acousticalweaponsdivision: plus the original snare sound is in there underneath
jaminuk: hats are very bright but not too cutting
acousticalweaponsdivision: yeah the hats could have done with a little more work
jaminuk: i'd say the lead vocal is a little too quiet
acousticalweaponsdivision: i think my kick drum is a bit too 'thumpy'
acousticalweaponsdivision: hmm now you mention it the vocals could do with a bit of a boost
rbro100: Have you taken the ride down and put the cymbols in the same track up?
rbro100: at end?
jaminuk: guys - just seen the time - we need to move on - anyone else got a track?
acousticalweaponsdivision: took the ride down a fair bit, its panned central and ive got the two crash cymbals panned to the left and right about 75%
rbro100: sounds good
andy_barber_wales: yep
rbro100:
kristianeliasson: bravo!
rbro100: got to get more yellow faces
jaminuk: well done AWD - i think the vox levels could be raised a tad but good work
acousticalweaponsdivision: why thank you sir
jaminuk: right can we all grab andys track
andy_barber_wales: ok
andy_barber_wales: labelled it week5 mix
jaminuk: listening to it now
rbro100: how many weeks are there?
rbro100: missed introduction session
jaminuk: off the top of my head there are about 12 weeks of questions
jaminuk: actually about 10 weeks of questions - then mock exams etc for a couple of weeks
acousticalweaponsdivision: hmm a bit of 'ringing' from the drums
jaminuk: good kit sound andy but ringing is apparent
jaminuk: you read my mind AWD
rbro100: is that the toms?
jaminuk: that would be the toms
acousticalweaponsdivision: my psychic abilities improve by the day
andy_barber_wales: didnt use eq on drums
jaminuk: when you have ringing such as this there are a couple of solutions
jaminuk: on tom mics you can usually gate
jaminuk: so channel is only 'open' when tom is hit
jaminuk: you can also find the freq with eq using a narrow 'q' value
jaminuk: and notch the ring value slightly
iheartmyjennifer: is it just me or does it go away?
jaminuk: gating is preferential in this particular mix as the toms are used infrequently
rbro100: it does
iheartmyjennifer: it comes back in the middle
jaminuk: it reappears for the finale too
jaminuk: comes out and takes a bow near the end
rbro100: the toms are only used 3 times
rbro100: ta-da!!!
kristianeliasson: comes back at 2.10
jaminuk: yes, so gating (or even cutting all the silence from the waveforms in your sequencer) would certainly help
rbro100: drums sound good appart from that though
jaminuk: yes good mid range on them
iheartmyjennifer: yeah they do
jaminuk: running out of time - anymore mixes?
acousticalweaponsdivision: apart from the ringing this sounds not bad
rbro100: I like it
andy_barber_wales: spank you
rbro100: (got to find another face)
jaminuk: rachel you want to do yours?
kristianeliasson: good vibe!
reynola31: sure
jaminuk: ok can we all grab rachels
reynola31: it is in the racheh folder then in the new stuff folder
jaminuk: by the way as we're running short on time i'll post practical details in the forum as i wont have time to cover it fully tonight
jaminuk: right listening now
jaminuk: is there a bandpass filter or similiar on the keyboards at the start rachel?
reynola31: yep
acousticalweaponsdivision: i like the fat bass but those drums seem a little quiet
jaminuk: the drums could come up a bit
reynola31: i agree with that
jaminuk: did you compress the bass?
reynola31: nope
reynola31: i passed it through a low pass filter
jaminuk: right
acousticalweaponsdivision: sounds interesting with the bongos being louder than the drums
jaminuk: yeah gives it a different feel
jaminuk: i think also it lacks a little high greq content overall
jaminuk: what speakers did you mix this on?
jaminuk: i meant freq not greq!
rbro100: thought we'd have to learn a new term
jaminuk: ha
jaminuk: grequency
reynola31: had to use my laptop speakers....
jaminuk: ah right
jaminuk: its very hard to judge extremes of frequency on laptop speakers - have you got a headphone socket on the laptop?
reynola31: yep i used headphones
iheartmyjennifer: everyone I must be going
iheartmyjennifer: God bless you all
jaminuk: ok
rbro100: bye
kristianeliasson: bye
reynola31: bye
iheartmyjennifer: g'bye
iheartmyjennifer has left the conference.
acousticalweaponsdivision: seeya
jaminuk: certainly a good effort for using headphones and laptop speakers
reynola31: thanks
jaminuk: everyone a round of applause for rachel and andy
acousticalweaponsdivision:
andy_barber_wales: well done all!
kristianeliasson: bravo!
rbro100:
andy_barber_wales: will try removing that ringing if i can find it!
rbro100: it's on the tom tom track
acousticalweaponsdivision: right, i'm off
andy_barber_wales: will this be an ongoing task?
jaminuk: ok everyone - we'll look at mastering this week
rbro100: 3 or 4
acousticalweaponsdivision: speak to you all later
rbro100: bye
jaminuk: andy - you are certainly welcome to keep on making improvements to the track
jaminuk: bye awd
acousticalweaponsdivision has left the conference.
andy_barber_wales: rodger rodger
reynola31: anyways bye all gotta go now see u next week
jaminuk: so i'll post the practical up in the MT forum
reynola31 has left the conference.
andy_barber_wales: off 2 bed, bon coir!
rbro100: bye
andy_barber_wales has left the conference.
kristianeliasson: are we going to master our mixes?
rbro100: Ben, just listened to Kris then mine. How do I get it crisper?
rbro100: or Kris, sorry
jaminuk: russ - this is all in the mixing process - you could ask kris?
kristianeliasson: hehe
jaminuk: ha
kristianeliasson: i am stil here
jaminuk: right i've got to go i'm afraid
jaminuk: check the forums tomorrow
kristianeliasson: ok bye ben
rbro100: bye ben
jaminuk: cheers guys - good work
_________________
It's all in the ears. - Learn the concepts not the software.
Audio Courses is a way into the music business for you
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Mon Oct 03, 2005 4:09 am |
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