AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2048
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| Live Workshop 220407 |
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b m has joined the conference.
the_electrosushi has joined the conference.
the_electrosushi: hello people
b m: hi there electro
Me: hello
the_electrosushi: how are things?
b m: good, and you?
the_electrosushi: not too bad either... I just had some rehearsing with a friend... feels good
b m: is this for your gig in cork city centre?
the_electrosushi: you're right... the pressure is pumping up
b m:
the_electrosushi: unforunately today there was only myself and the bass player
the_electrosushi: but we managed o sort out few things
b m: sometimes it is good to rehearse without some band members
b m: can help certain musicians 'lock together'
the_electrosushi: absolutely, in fact we "clocked" a bit better on some passages
b m: good
the_electrosushi: hey I found an audio file this week which is called Virtual Hair Cut
b m: where did you find this?
the_electrosushi: a friend sent it to me by mail thinking that it could have something to do with what I study
Me: Sounds interesting
the_electrosushi: did you hear it Chris?
the_electrosushi: anyway.. let me see if i can pull out a link
b m: ok
Me: Yeah pls.. i have virtual following me everywhere these days
the_electrosushi: wow wotta source... http://www.i-am-bored.com/bored_link.cfm?link_id=22913
the_electrosushi: best results if by headphones
b m: ah this is one of those 3D recordings
b m: they're pretty impressive
the_electrosushi: oh yes
b m: this is the first one i heard, again requires headphones - http://gprime.net/flash.php/soundimmersion
the_electrosushi: nice... but is it me or the sound never comes from the front
b m: what on headphones?
the_electrosushi: just some DJ kinda headphones
the_electrosushi: but definitely interesting the fact that it can be achieved such 3D with stereo
b m: yes it is good stuff
the_electrosushi: but, the surround system doesn't really seem like taking off very well in the music industry... doesn't it?
b m: well i don't think it will, chirs may disagree, but i think it requires too much effort on the side of the end user
b m: to get optimal results
b m: and the added cost
b m: and the average member of the public probably gets confused with the different surround standards
b m: pro logic, 5.1, DTS etc etc
the_electrosushi: yes plus, on my opinion, exactly
the_electrosushi: if the end user doesn't make it a standard, the format will have difficulties
b m: absolutely
b m: and i think that stereo works fine for music, i don't think we need to put the listener in a 3D soundstage
b m: people get excited about being able to be 'on stage' with the band with surround
b m: but if you are a musician you know that the on stage sound is much worse than the sound the punters are hearing out the front from 2 speakers!
the_electrosushi: yep... it was funny that thing... on the studio tips and tricks (from chris) about that fader... what was it called...
the_electrosushi: the FA fader
b m: ah yes
the_electrosushi: always useful
Me:
b m: i've used that 'trick' on several occasions
b m:
Me: You can usually baffle any stressed musician with jargon fairly easily
the_electrosushi: true, I can do it with my band mates
Me: "im trying to get some more undertones from the harmonics"
Me: etc
b m: haha
the_electrosushi: but that's only because I care about them
the_electrosushi: hey not many people today... maybe still time confusion?
b m: yes the americans were all late last week!
Me: I think still holidya mode
Me: Most people start work again tomorrow
Me: So hopefully should pick up next week.
the_electrosushi: coming back from the holidays is always traumatic
b m: absolutely
the_electrosushi: I was listening to the recordings of today, overall I managed to get a very good sound of guitar (in the mic)
Me: god yes
Me: Do u know I have 1200 emails awaiting for me after just 7 days
b m: wow
the_electrosushi: wow...
Me: ok, so 2/3 are crap but that still leaves 400
the_electrosushi: that's so a lot...
Me: I have some lists im subscribed to, they generate a ton
the_electrosushi: (and your students)
Me: :
b m: hehe
the_electrosushi: anyway, a part from a very crunchy wahwah... I like the results
b m: how did you record this guitar then?
the_electrosushi: this time I pointed the condenser very precisely towards the cone
b m: what mic did you use?
the_electrosushi: and in fact I got a very crispy rich sound
the_electrosushi: ehm it's Peavey condenser
b m: ok, and what part of the cone did you point at?
the_electrosushi: cheap but so far it turned out quiet reliable
the_electrosushi: right to the center, and made sure to face it at 90 degrees
the_electrosushi: about 6 inches away
b m: so you probably got a very 'bright' tone, correct?
the_electrosushi: yes
b m: is this recording on the FTP?
the_electrosushi: when the wahwah is in use, it gets a bit clipped, no because I don't think it is nice yet
the_electrosushi: well...
the_electrosushi: work in prohress I'd say
b m: ok
b m: try moving the mic to get different tones
b m: the further from the centre of the cone you move, the 'warmer' the sound becomes
b m: also if you move the mic 'off axis' (i.e. not 90 degrees) you can get different tones
the_electrosushi: aaah ok, the best would be if also the drummer would come out with a couple of mics...
the_electrosushi: that's were I am lacking material
b m: ok
the_electrosushi: I tried moving the mic around sometimes but sometimes it dint come out nicely..
the_electrosushi: but I am definetly learning each week
b m: yes you need to experiment - moving a mic by an inch can make a massive difference in tone
b m: obviously this is not quite as much of an issue with live sound
b m: but it still stands
the_electrosushi: yes, I noticed that the placing of a mic influeces tremendously also the drums
b m: absolutely!
the_electrosushi: e.g. I tried once putting a mic inside the kick drum, close to the batter...
the_electrosushi: I really missed the target that time
b m: yes kick positioning is critical
b m: for live i like the mic 2-3 inches in, facing the front skin but not aiming right at the center of the drum but instead a couple of inches to the side
the_electrosushi: so far, my best sound was by placing the mic in the front hole
the_electrosushi: i'll try that
b m: this is with a kick mic like a D112, RE20 or Beta52
b m: with different mics the optimal position changes
Me: ooooo someone way RE20?
Me: someone say
b m: hehe
the_electrosushi: wow, so big and yet dynamic
b m: Chris is a big RE20 fan
the_electrosushi: fine mic... looks like
b m: yes it is a cracker, one of the big players in the dynamic mic market, up there with SM7B and MD421 as the best dynamics (of course SM57 and SM58 as well)
the_electrosushi: I think that the only thing I need is some hands on with some equipment...
b m: and accordingly expensive
b m: you can not beat hands on experience
b m: offer to record all your friends!
Robert Yates has joined the conference.
b m: you can get really good mics for little money these days also
b m: hello Robert!
the_electrosushi: yep... that's an idea, I will try friday at the gig to actually get on the sound engineer and
Robert Yates: hey guys
the_electrosushi: hi robert
b m: Robert is a new student taking the Waves course
Robert Yates: hoping my stuff comes in the next week
b m: Robert: 'Me Bisto' is Chris - he will be back in a few minutes to say hi
Robert Yates: okey dokey
b m: electrosushi is one of your fellow students - do you want to quickly introduce yourself electro?
the_electrosushi: yes..allow me.... I am Edward and doing the RT course
the_electrosushi: since about 7 weeks more or less
the_electrosushi: i am from ireland, but I am italian
Robert Yates: whats the RT course?
b m: Recording Techniques
Robert Yates: ah
the_electrosushi: I should have said I live in Irelan at the moment
the_electrosushi: oh weel
Robert Yates:
b m: hehe
the_electrosushi: what's the waves course?
Robert Yates: mixing and mastering professional tracks with waves.com plugins
b m: Mixing and Mastering - do you remember Ken Boatman? he took that course recently, you guys listened to his mixes each week
b m: its a fun course the Waves one - great source materials to work with
Robert Yates: im lookin forward to starting
the_electrosushi: alright ... yes I remember, but you get specific plug ins?
Robert Yates: jah
b m: yes the waves plugs
the_electrosushi: ohm... interesting
the_electrosushi: where are from robert?
the_electrosushi: (you)
Robert Yates: im a born brit but have been living in Austria for 2 years or so now
b m: wow, how is Austria? I've never been there
Robert Yates: austria is great, big mountains around you everywhere and great views, i will take some photos sometime
the_electrosushi: ah ok, I like Austria, but there is no sea
the_electrosushi: I went may times to ski over there and there some giant structures along the ski runs
b m: what part of the Uk were you from Robert?
Robert Yates: East midlands, Peterborough
b m: home of the 'posh'
Robert Yates: exactly
the_electrosushi: really?
b m: hehe
b m: not posh spice
the_electrosushi: good to know
Robert Yates: heheh
the_electrosushi:
Robert Yates: some info about me, im 24 soon 25 and i use to be an infamous computer cracker, i removed software copy protections on cds and dvds computer games, all the commerical ones i can crack, and sony kind of discovered me and oftered me a job, now i am the manager for security developement of Sonys own copy protection.
b m: wow, interesting background
Robert Yates: yeh my life has had some interesting directions
b m: first person we've had from the 'scene'!
b m:
Robert Yates: oo, you know the jargon
b m: yeah i'm l33t!
Robert Yates: ha
b m: interesting
b m: you were never involved in the audio scene i take it, groups like radium, h20, paradox etc
Robert Yates: nah, though in the early days i did cracks and keygens for apps, but nothing music related, i was mostly in the game/iso scene
Robert Yates: http://www.woodmann.com/yates/index.htm is my oldish website
b m: is this the same fairlight who used to do public domain amiga demos
Robert Yates: yeh
b m: i used to love the old amiga demos, 'jesus on e's' is one i particularly remember
Robert Yates: yeh the demos always had great gfx and music
b m: software security is an interesting topic
Robert Yates: music is my 2nd hobby, i like creating dance music on DAWs but also play guitar, bass and drums and like to make rock songs, so im learning to mix stuff better so i can produce better stuff and i also want to mix and master cds for my friends bands
b m: what DAW(s) do you use?
Robert Yates: i managed to empty one of the colour cartridges at work today by printing izotope manuals
Robert Yates: i use mostly fruity loops and ableton live for recording
b m: ok
the_electrosushi: Live is an excellent DAW
Robert Yates: but i have many daws
the_electrosushi: I like the fact that it doesn't load the CPU
Robert Yates: its good for throwing together clips
the_electrosushi: as well yes... but that's also good in Logic (my main tool)
Robert Yates: i bought some excellent drum software last week, Addictive Drums, maybe you know it, its awesome
b m: yes i've heard of it but have't used it yet
b m: it is in the same vein as BFD and DFH etc i believe
Robert Yates: yeh
Robert Yates: i heard about it from the magazine Computer Music, so i tried the demo and loved it, then i bought the full product
b m: yeah we hooked up BFD recently to a set of Rolan V-Drums and that was great
b m: i must try that out soon
b m: some great drum progs out there
Robert Yates: aye
the_electrosushi: yes, but can they replace a real drummer?
Robert Yates: sure
Robert Yates: if you put enough enough into the midi patterns
b m: hehe
Robert Yates: erm enough effort
b m: played on a MIDI drum kit they can sound pretty much indistguinshable
b m: the only criticism i have off all these different ROMplers is that none have quite got hi-hats sounding right
Robert Yates: i also have a midi drum kit, but i cant play for shit so i prefer note plotting *g*
b m: but hats are very complex
the_electrosushi: well, but there is no sould.. in my opinion especially in a rock contest... the sould of the drum set is irreplaceable
the_electrosushi: sorry soul
b m: i know what you mean and agree to an extent
b m: but in some circumstances sampled drums are fine
b m: ok you wouldn't get away with it if you were recording Beth Orton or Ray LaMontagne
the_electrosushi: a mix of the 2 makes a very good work
b m: but you probably could with Shania Twain!
the_electrosushi: lol
Robert Yates: heh
b m: a lot of engineers replace drums sounds with plugs like Drumagog these days
b m: especially in hard rock/metal circles
b m: kick drum replacement is rife
the_electrosushi: have you listened to Air's new album?
b m: no i haven't yet - any good? - I used to be a big Air fan
the_electrosushi: there is a lot real drums mixed with sampels
b m: Air are very clever with their production
the_electrosushi: well, it's not the Moon Safari they made, but teh last one is aboove the average
b m: Moon Safari is a classic album
b m: i don't think they ever bettered that
b m: although i liked the Virgin Suicides soundtrack they did
Robert Yates: i never heard of Air
the_electrosushi: I think they helped the coming back of teh minimoog
the_electrosushi: really?
b m: ha, really?
Robert Yates: jop
b m: yes and Rhodes also
the_electrosushi: if you ever want have a taste of what they are capable of, go for Moon Safari
Robert Yates: hopefully its just because im too young
b m: you'd probably know some of the famous tracks, 'kelly watch the stars', 'sexy boy', 'all i need' etc
b m: ha, they're not that old!
b m:
the_electrosushi: well.. I'm 26
b m: i think moon safari was about 1999
Robert Yates: hehe ok then i was a deprived child
b m: ha
Robert Yates: spent too much of my life in my bedroom cracking computer games
the_electrosushi: eheh
b m: listening to too many .mod compositions i expect!?
Robert Yates: yeh
the_electrosushi: to what?
Robert Yates: chip tunes
b m: kind of an old school sequenced file
b m: very small file size
the_electrosushi: ok...
b m: i've been getting really excited by some of the new wave of french dance music recently, especially the stuff on 'ed banger' label
b m: you guys heard any of that?
Robert Yates: nope
b m: one guy, SebastiAn, wow, he is a monster with cutting up sounds
the_electrosushi: no
b m: http://www.myspace.com/0sebastian0
b m: check out 'ross ross ross'
b m: really creative cutting and pasting
b m: IMHO
Robert Yates: pretty neat
the_electrosushi: yes, and good bit of tweaking
b m: yes, i was a big fan of the first wave of french house back in the mid/late 90s and these guys are carrying it on with a harder edge
Robert Yates: wheres chris?
b m: he had something to tend to tonight but he should be back soon enough
Robert Yates: ah
b m: we usually have larger groups than this but we're missing the american contingent tonight
b m: and russell is not present either
Robert Yates: ah ok
b m: people still recovering from easter!?!
Robert Yates: you use pro logic 7 on the mac ben?
the_electrosushi: i do
b m: no i'm not a mac user so don't get to use logic, used it a few times years back on the PC, version 5 i think
Robert Yates: ah, i was gonna ask if there is much difference from the pc v5
Robert Yates: i always see logic referenced in tutorials, seems to be popular
b m: i imagine things like PDC will have been added and i think the GUI has obviously been improved
the_electrosushi: i never seen the previous ones, but in the latest there is a great number plugins
the_electrosushi: and really cool ones
b m: a lot of Pro Tools users use Logic as front end for the Pro Tools hardware
the_electrosushi: like there is a ring modulator...
Robert Yates: im still undecided what daw to use. i mean i use fruity loops for creating electronic music but i need a daw for mixing recorded band tracks
b m: are you PC or Mac primarily?
Robert Yates: pc
b m: personally I like Cubase but that is a personal choice
b m: many people like Sonar also
b m: Pro Tools is obviously an industry standard but not so great in the LE versions (no PDC) and you need hardware
Robert Yates: i have cubase v3 and sonar 4 to try out but i didnt get around to it yet
the_electrosushi: Live itself is very powerful
Robert Yates: im not keen on the gui side of live
b m: I'm a big fan of Cubase SX, especially as it's MIDI side is very powerful compared to Live and Pro Tools
the_electrosushi: a bit rough yes
b m: I don't think there is an awful lot in it these days, most of the big packages are at a similiar level
Robert Yates: ah ok
b m: Pro Tools does have the advantage of being used in most studios so you can take projects painlessly to commercial installations
the_electrosushi: true, GUI is the main concern
b m: I've used Live and it took me ages to get my head around GUI/workflow
b m: coming from a Cubase/Pro Tools background
Robert Yates: is Pro Tools another name for Pro Logic or is Logic a part of this Tools set?
b m: very different indeed
b m: Pro Tools is different
b m: made by Digidesign
Robert Yates: oh
b m: Logic is Apple (used to be EMagic)
b m: http://www.digidesign.com
Robert Yates: so many daws around
b m: that is where you find the Pro Tools stuff
the_electrosushi: the pro version is caslled Logic PRO but there is also Logic Express
b m: yes there is an open source DAW at the moment called 'Reaper'
b m: http://www.cockos.com/reaper/
the_electrosushi: there are few... I was looking in tol ast week
the_electrosushi: and they all look very promising
Robert Yates: looks nice
b m: absolutely, i really think that unless you plan on taking work between different studios then find the one that you can work best with in terms of workflow etc
the_electrosushi: a part from Audacity, which is really a pain
b m: hehe
b m: yeah, never used audacity
b m: looks basic from the screenshots though
b m: but that doesn't mean anything
the_electrosushi: didn't miss anything... in terms of speed it is a nightmare
b m: ha
the_electrosushi: the speed is probably the hidden cost of the app
b m: i started off using this prog - http://xmp.sourceforge.net/gallery/octamedpro-4.0.png
Robert Yates: hä, i used to play with that in the amiga days
the_electrosushi: wow, does it run on the game boy?
b m: lol
Robert Yates: it was cool
b m: probably could actually
the_electrosushi: I saw the other day the first DAW for the PSP
b m: only problem with those old style apps was that you ended up focusing more on numbers and hexadecimal values rather than actual music!
b m: wow, a DAW for the PSP?
the_electrosushi: gimme a sec
the_electrosushi: http://www.psprhythm.com/
the_electrosushi: sorry... not a DAW
b m: ha, looks like a Roland TB-303 with the keys at the bottom
Robert Yates: cute
b m: http://www.vintagesynth.com/roland/images/tb303big.jpg
Robert Yates: yeh
the_electrosushi: a lot in common
b m: or even the famous 909 - http://rolandclan.info/media/images/tr-909.jpg
the_electrosushi: that's beginning of something...
b m: i expect we'll be mixing tunes on our mobile phones in a few years time
Robert Yates: hehe
the_electrosushi: can you imagine going to play a gig with your kind of ipod
the_electrosushi: plug in a guitar and there you go
Me: I know people that do that already, well a guitar pod at least.
b m: sounds crazy but then 10/15 years ago people would have never believed you could have a studio in a £600 computer that was infinitely more powerful than Abbey Road in the 60/70s
b m: ah here's chris!
Me: Infinately more power and infinately crappy in the wrong hands
b m: definitely
the_electrosushi: oh yes, but maybe apple will come up with a more stylish version and everyone will buy it...
b m: lol
Me: please no
Robert Yates: http://www.pxe.buntweb.de/ xamp, one of the best guitar amps i found
Robert Yates: hey chris
Me: HI Robert, or is it bobby?
Robert Yates: Rob
b m: i've been very impressed with Amplitube 2 myself - very convincing reaction to the players 'fingers'
b m: and not quite as 'out there' as Guitar Rig 2
the_electrosushi: I use guitar rig 2... yes... really out there
Robert Yates: i get waaay too much noise with guitar rig
b m: have you tried Amplitube?
Robert Yates: maybe im doin something wrong
Robert Yates: yeh i have, its better in terms of noise
b m: are you using a DI box to sort out impedance?
Robert Yates: ähm, i think no
b m: where are you plugging in the guitar?
the_electrosushi: sound card?
Robert Yates: i have a Sound Blaster X-Fi and i plug directly into the input on the front panel
b m: is that a line level input do you know?
Robert Yates: i have no idea
Me: yes they are Ben
b m: ah ok
b m: that is not optimal for guitar purposes
Robert Yates: bugger
b m: amplitube in particular will not sound very good if you are mismatching the guitar input
Robert Yates: whats a good setup for guitars directly into a computer?
the_electrosushi: any audio interface on teh market would do
b m: either a soundcard with an instrument input or a DI box to convert the signal to a mic or line level signal
Robert Yates: a DI box hm ok i will research it
Me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DI_unit
Robert Yates: great stuff
the_electrosushi: good ol'wiki
b m: seeing as you are in Europe, a great place to pick up stuff is Thomann
b m: http://www.thomann.de/#
b m: http://www.thomann.de/
Robert Yates: ah ok thanks
the_electrosushi: maybe you could even drive to thomann
Robert Yates: probably
the_electrosushi: it is near Nürnmberg
b m: thomann do their own dirt cheap hardware which is cheap and cheerful
b m: i.e.
b m: http://www.thomann.de/gb/millenium_die_dibox_passiv.htm
the_electrosushi: it looks like a russian big muff
Me: bloody hell that is cheap
b m: at the other end
b m: http://www.thomann.de/gb/radial_engeniering_jdv.htm
b m: yeah thomann do some great deals on their own brand stuff
b m: £50 ribbon mic! - http://www.thomann.de/gb/the_tbone_rb100.htm
Me: hmm can't help thinking it will sound pants
Robert Yates: heh my keyboard decided to stop working and to unplug it and plug it back in
Me: Love the name though
b m: actually they do one ribbon mic which is about £75 which is meant to sound pretty good if you spend about 5 mins 'modding' it
b m: yeah T-Bone is one of their own brands
the_electrosushi: aaa haaa...
b m: interestingly you can find the same mics badged with a different name in America for sometimes 3x more
b m: £66 electro acoustic - http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_hbd500nt.htm
Robert Yates: cool site
b m: Harley Benton is their brand name for instruments
the_electrosushi: but they smell a bit fishy
b m: ??
Robert Yates: what happen to the new podcasts chris
b m: i'm tempted by this - http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_beatbass.htm
the_electrosushi: or if you want to add some DIY.. http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_benton_bass_guitar_kit.htm
b m: i love some of that thomann stuff!!
Robert Yates: i want to bring my bass guitar from england back here but i have no case, and dont want to spend money on one, im wonder if i can trust Ryan Air with a softcase
b m: hmm
Me: I put a hard guitar case on ryanair once... came off with no handle
b m: youch
Robert Yates: hä, hm ok
b m: yeah i'd only ever trust them with a hard case securely locked i think
Robert Yates: hrmpf ok
b m: anyhow guys, it is 20:00, for me that means dinner!
the_electrosushi: same here
Robert Yates: ok nice to meet you guys
b m: good to meet you robert!
the_electrosushi: yea... see you next time.. bye everyone
b m: good bye!
Robert Yates: ciao
b m: bye all
Me: Take care, have a great week
b m has left the conference.
Robert Yates: i listened to all the podcasts last week whilst working, was funny and interesting
Me: Great stuff...
Me: We like humour
Me:
Robert Yates: how often do you make them?
Me: twice a week
Robert Yates: ah super
Robert Yates: i tried out this second life shit, but i really had no idea what i was doing, just ended up flyin around
Me: Always love audio comments, do send one in
Me:
Me: with regards to SL, i'll give you a hand sometime
Robert Yates: if you pay the phone bill
Me: no, you record one..
Me: email it
Robert Yates: aah
Robert Yates: technology is great
Me: love it
Me: OK Rob, have a good week, see you soon.
_________________
It's all in the ears. - Learn the concepts not the software.
Audio Courses is a way into the music business for you
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Sun Apr 22, 2007 7:20 pm |
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