AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Week 2 - Music 1 |
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Classical
Activity 1
Your task for this activity is to use the internet (or any other resources) to research for information pertaining to the questions below. For this activity I propose we link up and give ownership and responsiblity to each of you for specific questions. I have indicated next to each question who has that responsibility.
<P>
As Winston (another student) is having some problems I have given each of you two questions in this activity.
Though you are responsible for two each you are encouraged to not only stick to your own, but also to integrate and motivate each other. Therefore we are looking for you all to actively research these themes. Additionally you will find much more information regarding classical recording during your research that will open up a wide area for discussion.
Questions
1. What are the technical difficulties found in classical music editing?
(Aidan)
2. Why might a digital reverberation unit be used in classical music recording (particularly recording for broadcast)? Give two reasons and discuss.
(Daniel)
3. List and describe FOUR administrative functions that would be undertaken by a producer or assistant producer in a classical recording session.
(Nancy)
4. Describe THREE requirements of a classical recording venue.
(Mike)
5. What noise is often heard from an orchestral harp, besides the sound of the strings?
(Aidan)
6. Describe FOUR aspects of the role of the producer in a classical music recording.
(Daniel)
7. Briefly explain why it is more likely that digital reverberation would be used for recording an orchestra for broadcast, compared to when it is recorded for release on CD.
(Nancy)
8. When is it most likely that a compressor would be used in classical music recording?
(Mike)
Though you may not know the answers yet, the whole point is that YOU research the themes so you can construct your own meaning from that learning. Just because you may post a message to begin with, do not feel that it is set in stone. Of course all our views and thoughts will change with additional knowledge.
With that in mind, be adventurous and do not worry if you are at first struggling to find your stance. Forums are excellent for being able to build you knowledge over time and develop opinion.
Who will start us off with this activity then?
Chrish
P>S> I just completed recording a cello with a Piano. Used three mics in all.
Last edited by AUdIoCoUrSeS on Sun Mar 09, 2003 2:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
Sat Mar 08, 2003 4:49 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Activity 2 - Music 1 |
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Popular Music
Activity 2
Questions:
1.
(Aidan)
a) Name the three types of instrument you would be most likely to find in a brass section in pop music.
b) What is the minimum number of microphones that can be used to record a five-piece brass section in stereo?
c) A producer has the idea of combining a violin with the brass section referred to in part b) and recording them all at the same time. Explain how this would be achieved.
d) What is the main advantage of hiring a brass section comprising people who regularly work together, as opposed to hiring individual musicians
2.
(Daniel)
a) When miking an electric guitar cabinet, what difference would you expect in the sound quality from the centre of the drive unit's cone and the edge of the cone?
b) Why does a DI signal from the loudspeaker output of a guitar amplifier sound different to a microphone placed in front of the cabinet?
c) A dynamic microphone placed close to a combo amplifier may pick up hum, whereas a capacitor microphone will not. Explain the reason.
d) Would a bass guitar cabinet normally reproduce accurately the fundamental frequencies of the lowest notes of the instrument?
3.
(Nancy)
a) Describe the Decca tree system of miking.
b) In popular music recording, what are ‘basic tracks’?
c) In a popular music recording session of a conventional rock band, what is ‘foldback?’
d) Why is it not suitable to connect the output of a record player pickup cartridge directly to a studio mixing console? Give two reasons.
4.
(Mike)
a) Why is a DI box used to connect an electric guitar to a mixing console? If an active DI box is to be used without a battery, to which input of the console must it be connected and why?
b) A singer is double tracking a vocal using headphone foldback, they experience difficulty in identifying the two vocals. Explain a possible solution to the problem.
c) Describe how a multitrack live recording can be made using outputs derived from the channels of the front of house console. Assume that the front of house console is of professional design, and the channels are fully featured.
d) Explain why the channel direct outputs would not be suitable.
Good luck.
Chrish
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Sun Mar 09, 2003 1:39 pm |
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MIKE_NOSTRADAMUS
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Location: Northfork Recording Studios |
| classical activity 1 |
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I hope the live chat goes better than my investigative morning.
My printer broke down and my computer tells me it ran out of memory!!what a hoot!!!
Lucky I have backup.
This really applies to my first task at hand."Items for Classical Music Venues
#1: From what I read this morning the outcome is to come very prepared not just for recording but know the subject.
You should Know the instruments and how many people you are about to record.How is the seating to be arranged.
#2:You should be familiar with your equipment.Don't bring a piece of equipment you 've been having problems with in the last couple of sessions.Get it repaired first and test it before using at a real session.
#3Where will you record?Concert hall,Theatre,Church,Park even Town hall
#4 know your role as the engineer or producer
There's a lot lot more but here are some sites to check out:
www.record-producer.com/recording/classical_music.html
www.oxtrackstudio.co.uk/education/makearecord.htm
www.sospubs.co.uk/sos/feb02/articles/cheshire0202.asp
that's what I have for now
Mike |
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Sun Mar 09, 2003 4:57 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Symphotec system |
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Mike ok, well done you've got some web links there. I popped along to http://www.gramophone.co.uk and checked out this news, a system, especially designed for orchestral recordings.
Quite interesting.
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"Symphotec orchestral recording system makes UK début February 7 2003
A novel system designed specifically for recording and amplifying orchestras recently made its UK début, when it was used for the Royal Philharmonic Concert Orchestra accompanying soprano Lesley Garrett at the Royal Albert Hall.
By using a series of routers with their own control, the Symphotec system makes mixing groups of microphones much simpler, and in a live environment can even avoid the need for huge mixing consoles, much to the relief of sound engineers.
The classic arrangement for recording orchestras is a crossed pair of microphones, sometimes with a few ‘spot’ mikes used to enhance detail, but the Symphotec system addresses the increasing trend to use a large number of microphones, whether for recording or the increasing number or concerts being given for which sound reinforcement is employed.
The system is based around groups of five microphones, which are used through a router that pre-mixes them and reduces their output to a single feed, thus reducing the number of mixer channels needed in the control room or on the live sound desk.
It’s been used with orchestras such as the Munich Philharmonic and the Budapest Strauss Orchestra, as well as a large number of open-air orchestral and opera events, and those using it seem impressed with what it can do. Sound by Design’s Phil Wright, front of house engineer for the Lesley Garrett concerts, says ‘I was able to achieve the most stunning string sound I've ever managed, both in terms of quality and headroom. Several members of the audience commented how good the strings sounded.’
The Symphotec system is available either as a complete set-up or as individual components: a 25-microphone package, complete with all routers, is around £15,000. "
http://www.gramophone.co.uk/newsMainTemplate.asp?storyID=1648&newssectionID=5
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Will be interesting to see if this system becomes a standard in future.
Cheers
Chrish |
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Sun Mar 09, 2003 6:22 pm |
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MIKE_NOSTRADAMUS
Joined: 08 Jan 2003
Posts: 163
Location: Northfork Recording Studios |
| Gramaphone mag. article |
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I found this interesting because I'm working on that concept right now for recording live and portable.I've come to use certain mikes and equip.on gigs so I've pre wired all mixers and anything to record with to save me time at gigs.All I have to do is cable hook ups.All of this in one cabinet like a large suit case(roadcase).
in this case i have:
4- samson CO1 studio Condenser mics
1- Apex studio cond. mic
3- samson r-21 dynamic mics
misc mics(samson,sm57,58
2 small 4 channel mixing desks(which plug into stereo mixing desk
1-small dj stereo mixing desk which controls the final mix that goes to laptop.
1- h/p 1125 laptop 1.3 g/win XP 20 g which records with musio studio 7
The laptop has an extigy sound card which is not bad for what it is doing in the field.the recording needs to be brought back to the studio for final mixing and add of processors on desktop but same platform.
This unit has been tested out 3 times in the last 2 weeks and has'nt let me down yet.
I'm in the final stages of completion of assembly the final product based on the prototype which worked.
In my studio I do all the wiring,electronics,hook ups and final approvals for recording.
the only place I really get stuck is in computer programming and some new teck hook ups(especially on this new challenge on my assignment this week of Firewire)I'm already networked to all my computers which is great because they all do something different.This is where my 2 assistants come in the picture both are graduates of computer sciences from universities and both want to learn about the music world of computers or using computers for music so we exchange ideas and they help out with my teckie problems.We are all learning from this
anyhow getting off the track here another inter.subject
Interesting article
Mike |
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Mon Mar 10, 2003 11:27 am |
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Dani
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 35
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Question 1; Reasons for the use of digital reverberation in Classical Recording.
I struggled to find a definitive answer on this and as I have had no experience whatsoever in recording orchestral arrangements, I thought I'd better try to come up with something on my own. This can then be laughed at/corrected by others in the group, should they wish to.
My first thought was about natural acoustics. When you hear classical music live, in its normal environment i.e. in a concert hall, you hear the orchestra's sound bouncing off the walls in a pleasing manner. This reverberation is very organic and natural. I would imagine that venues which have been designed with classical music in mind would put the emphasis on the "right" sound being around the audience. The musicians, after all, aren't the ones who are paying.
With this in mind, I would reason that, to "capture" the ambience/reverberation of a building would mean setting up a whole lot of mikes in the area of the audience. Probably facing 360 degrees around to capture every possible direction and reflection. Which, if used to “add” to the sound would maybe work, but would be useless for recording the whole ensemble as it would be almost impossible to mix? Every mike would be picking up every instrument at the same time.
So you need to mike up individual instruments/sections. This now removes most of the natural ambience as the dynamic range of the mike/desk would be probably too small to pick up the effect, plus, as mentioned before; the orchestra is not best placed for this effect.
So, for my first reasoned response I would say that primarily, digital reverberation is used to give the music some of it's missing natural ambience, which saves time and effort in the recording phase (with not having to use extra mikes). The other big advantage of working with digital effects is the "tweakability" of the sound. For instance, as a producer you may want a string section to have lots of reverb and the tuba's to have none. It gives us flexibility.
The second reason for the use of reverb is to act as a coloured wash over the recording/broadcast. Reverb can be used to change the tone of the sound and it can be used to "hide" little tonal problems. It can also be tailored to a specific medium, for instance; if you know the recording is only ever going to be played back on a home stereo/small radio, you can change the reverb to suit those devices, most living rooms don't have great acoustics, so you fake it for the listener.
I hope these answers aren't lame, but I look forward to hearing everyone else’s views.
Thanks
Dani |
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Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:30 pm |
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Dani
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 35
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Ok, so task two, the role of the producer in classical music.
Well, thanks to the link very kindly posted by Mike I found my answer.
Liase with the conductor and engineer to plan the recording in terms of which parts of the music will be recorded first and the placement of the musicians within the recording space. Liase with the conductor on which version of the score will be used.
Liase with the conductor and engineer during the recording on the quality of the sound and the quality of the performance, it is also the producers job to try, with the help of the conductor to get the best out of the musicians, by use of encouragement/praise. By using the Praise/Bollock/Praise technique, he/she can point out the good points in a take but also mention the not so good points in an attempt to make things better, without upsetting any of the players.
Make sure all the music has been recorded; you don't want to pack everything away and go back to the studio only to find the middle bit is missing!
Log all takes (if you haven't got an assistant) with take number, which section of the piece has been recorded, where on the tape the take starts and finishes, comment on the quality of the take.
Finally, I guess the role of the producer is to bring all the elements together in a cohesive way and in such a way that it makes the recording seems effortless. So everyone is happy, the engineer because he knows exactly what he's doing beforehand, the musicians, because they can see by your actions that you are a professional and they won't hesitate in working with you again, the conductor, because if the musicians are happy it makes his job easier and finally the record company, because they get a great recording and a great product.
Thanks
Dani |
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Mon Mar 10, 2003 6:55 pm |
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Dani
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Posts: 35
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Popular Music Activity 2
a) When miking an electric guitar cabinet, what difference would you expect in the sound quality from the centre of the drive unit's cone and the edge of the cone?
When the mike is pointing directly at the cone it yields more active highs and better transient detail but fewer low frequencies. As you move the mike towards the edge, the sound becomes less detailed, but because of the proximity effect, will pick up lower frequencies, as a result the sound will be warmer.
b) Why does a DI signal from the loudspeaker output of a guitar amplifier sound different to a microphone placed in front of the cabinet?
When the signal from the DI output on a guitar amp is plugged directly into a desk, the sound has not yet been "coloured" by the speaker cabinet. The cabinet's construction, materials used, speaker type/size, mike position/type/orientation and type of room are all very important factors in the colour of the sound that is finally heard through the monitors. Each one by itself can have such an impact on the final sound, that none should be overlooked. By DI'ing you are taking the signal and bypassing these subtle processes.
c) A dynamic microphone placed close to a combo amplifier may pick up hum, whereas a capacitor microphone will not. Explain the reason.
It is because dynamic microphones are affected by electromagnetic radiation which emanates from speaker cones (magnets) or amps (transformer) this manifests itself as HUM.
d) Would a bass guitar cabinet normally reproduce accurately the fundamental frequencies of the lowest notes of the instrument?
I'm afraid on this one I am stuck, but my innitial thought was no, the cabinet would also "colour" the sound, the larger the cone then the lower frequencies it could produce. Also the type of amp used would affect it, a tube amp would add warmth and probably some slightly distorted harmonics, which wouldn't be there at the guitar pickup. There is also the possiblity of Sub-Harmonics emanating from the cab, these ultra low frequences are probably not present when the string is played.
But.....I could also answer yes, the frequencies of the lowest string would still be there, even if there was added "colour".
Comment is welcome
Dani |
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Mon Mar 10, 2003 10:08 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Good job Dani |
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Dani, an excellent start.
You've made some really good points and presented them in a fluent manner. Just to post some "quick" feedback I'd like you to look again at:
quote:
d) Would a bass guitar cabinet normally reproduce accurately the fundamental frequencies of the lowest notes of the instrument?
To cut a long story short the ear will "construct" the missing frequencies that the loudspeaker is unable to produce. The phenomenon is called
Fundamental Tracking
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Some sites to get your searching off to a start:
http://www.picotech.com/applications/loudspeaker.html
http://www.psychology.nottingham.ac.uk/staff/amd/FT_Stories/UltraBass.html
Bear in mind the frequency of the lowest note the bass has to play and then relate that to the loudspeaker/design.
Good luck.
Chrish |
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Tue Mar 11, 2003 6:43 pm |
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