mommi
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
Hi,
From what I was able to find in 10 minutes (
http://www.awesome80s.com/Awesome80s/Music/1982/Michael_Jackson-Thriller.asp
) I can start off by saying that "Billy Jean" is from an album named "Thriller" from 1982, produced by Quincy Jones under the label of Sony.
Haven't got a hold of the track myself, though.
So much then 
mommi |
Mon Sep 29, 2003 7:58 pm |
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adams
Newbie
Joined: 03 Oct 2002
Posts: 6
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quincy jones is a legend producer has worked on a hell of a lot of stuff, he also produced the fresh prince of bell air, but everyone knows that. the song billie jean was never mean"t to be realeased , it was written for an award ceremony, cant remember which 1 but a classic tune. if any 1 does know where the song was produced plz let me know, cheers |
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Tue Sep 30, 2003 8:24 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Drum Sound |
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This is starting to work..
So who loves the drum sound as much as me?.. and why?
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 1:30 am |
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julesf
Joined: 31 Aug 2003
Posts: 58
Location: Southampton, UK |
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Michael Jackson's Billy Jean.
Written by Michael Jackson, produced by the legendary Quincy Jones, recorded in Los Angeles (possibly Ocean studios) for the one of the biggest selling albums ever "Thriller"
This album sold well over 40 million copies and was probably nearer to 50 Million. It was the year that Jackson scooped no less that 7 Grammy awards in one night. Most of the tracks on the album went top 10.
The production is very simple really but very effective. The drum part I think is a loop taken from a live drum track. In 1983 It could be a sample as early samplers would have been available for about 3 years.The fact that it has a few fills in the drum track suggests it could be programmed. It may be a loop created on tape or something not sure what they did then, but I would plum for a sampler playing the loop while the drum fills are triggered on the
sampler by a programmed hardware sequencer, or an Atari running Notator. If this drum part was played into the track then I think that the drummer would have been tempted to add more expression to the track, and part of the feel is the fact that the drum part is so repetitive. This is all a guess.
The bass on this track absolutely kicks! If you have heard this track through a 700 watt rig as I have (most Saturday nights) you will know what I mean. It does leave one a little concerned about leaving the venue with voice coils intact on the bass bins, so far so good. But the point is that although the bass is pounding the rest of the track is still crystal clear. It has a warm 2" tape analogue sound which is very typical of 80's disco production of the time. The recording quality is awesome. 
The main stay of the track is the rock steady Bass and drum groove that sets the feel and mood from the first bars. This allows Jackson to really kinda of play with the phrasing on the top line. I would have said that whilst the track is absolutely amazing it would have not taken that long to build up the parts and lay down the structure.
The over exaggerated reverb on the vocal is an interesting choice. I would be very worried to mix a vocal like this as I would expect technical criticism, but it clearly works as I have never really thought about it until listening in detail.
Subtle use of the horns is also a nice touch as is the shaker (played by Randy or Janet Jackson) running through the loop. The sound and feel is typical of Jackson ( or Jackson / Jones) at this time and could be described as disco, soul, funk and pop all rolled into one. The guitar part at the end is a typical soul rhythm (think James Brown here) but with a different more modern 80's sound and feel. The synth that builds the chorus's is probably a Juno 60 or something like it and is typical of that 80,s poly synth sound which supports builds, fattens the track and implies orchestration.
The lyric adds interest to the song, you cant help thinking "is he coming clean here, is she lying" and kinda trying to listen to the expression in the voice to get a feel if he is on the line or not.
I love the drum sound as much as you Chris! How was it acheived, anyone?
Please feel free to correct me on any wrong detail.
Jules |
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 7:18 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Doubtful Drum Loops |
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Great post Jules.
Here are a couple of items to help keep the dialogue flowing. Particularly the Lukather reference may generate some helpful “pointers” for more info.
http://www.stevelukather.net/luke.asp?page=thriller.html
Steve Lukather’s site indicates that the guitar parts were played by Jackson himself (top job Mike).
Some good stuff:
quote:
“You know the three chord synth vamp on Michael Jackson's 'Billie Jean?' That's me.”
Bill Wolfer
http://www.latinjazznet.com/special_features/questions/bill_wolfer.htm
quote:
“
Ndugu Chancler
is known not only as a world-class drummer and percussionist, but also a producer, composer, clinician and teacher. A three-time Grammy nominee, he has to his credit an extensive list of performances, recordings, original compositions and productions. As a studio musician, he has performed and recorded with Miles Davis, Herbie Hancock, George Duke, Patrice Rushen, Hubert Laws, The Crusaders, Frank Sinatra, Weather Report, Lionel Richie, Kenny Rogers, Thelonious Monk and John Lee Hooker.
He was the drummer on the biggest selling pop album by Michael Jackson, Thriller, providing the beat on “Billie Jean.
”
http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ndugu_Chancler.html
He is also a lecturer on jazz studies here:
http://www.usc.edu/music/faculty/facjazz.html
I'm doubting the loop theory to be honest.
Chrish
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Wed Oct 01, 2003 8:37 pm |
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AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2014
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| Seasoned Musicians |
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Hey Jules no worries.
It's a kicking ass drum track, even some Low tom tom way down in the mix and a delightful amount of opened hat for intimating the changes, and yeah I agree he does a "tight job".
I'm such a fan of seasoned jazzers laying down some simple stuff, I'm sure it was probably a one take for him.
More info soon.
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Last edited by AUdIoCoUrSeS on Thu Oct 02, 2003 3:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 2:19 am |
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Albow
Joined: 02 Sep 2003
Posts: 27
Location: Spain |
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So how about the rythym guitar solo?
Is that sampled?
I know Steve Lukather says Jackson played it (did Lukather have the day off?) but the rythym melody is looped several times over. It appears first I think in the second chorus and then is repeated several times for the solo. It then comes back to fade out with the song.
I don't know if I'm imagining it but do I hear the join of it being comped or spun in again after a couple of bars of the solo?
I just cant see Jackson, or anyone, playing the tune verbatim as we hear on the record, the phrasing is so crisp.
It's an extraordinary solo because it's been there all my life, just like for anyone who hasn't lived on the moon since '82, I've listened to it over and over not even noticed it was there, even though it was completely familiar to me when I listened to it at close quarters just now.
As for the effects on the guitar, I haven't really got a clue, although I will take a guess at a compressor, some delay and reverb, and there also seems to be a bit of a quiver on there aswell, so er...slight bit of wah wah?
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 5:20 am |
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mommi
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Posts: 47
Location: Tallinn, Estonia |
| Structure |
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What is interesting here - you cannot predict exactly what the following <b>structure</b> block will be, the song is built up so it breaks the sense of quadratic blocks in longer term. It starts up with a two-bar intro from drums, joined by the bass for the following eight bars. Now you could expect the incoming synth to play as long, i.e. eight bars, but here you are - after just four bars with synth there starts the vocal. To be confused even more, the first period of the verse lasts 8+4 bars, making you think about 12 bar periods, but what follows is exactly 8 bars of the second verse (or should I say the second half of the first verse?) I won't go more far describing it, though I'd like to notice the first chorus exploits 8+4 bars as does the first verse, but the second coming of the chorus is nothing more than 8 bars again. So that is what makes the song very much alive - you listen to it, you make your guesses what will come next, you then recognise you were wrong, you make corrections in your guess and find yourself being fooled once again.
About the drum sound - yes, really cool  . I could visualise the kick drum pedal moving and the player's stick hitting the snare. It is like I were there. What I found is the snare sound transforming throughout the track. This probably is not any news to you more experienced guys, but for me it was a real discovery The snare starts with a fine reverb added, the reverb turned down on the first verse. The intermediary sections (what are they called, those eight bar pieces connecting verses with the choruses, you know?) are (almost?) completely dry, on choruses an overly different reverb is used. Is this the gated reverb or what?
So much then. Ah yes, wanted to say the steadiness and monotony of the drum part pays off very much when sudden tom additives appear on the choruses. Your attention towards the drum part has fallen asleep and then - boom! Wake up!  (No, not really, on the contrary - going to sleep now ..)
Just my five cents
mommi |
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Thu Oct 02, 2003 8:58 am |
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I know that there are some class drummers out there that cut that sort of tight timing, but not to be tempted to sustain the high hat or express certain elements of the song through the drums takes real discipline. It is almost as if the brief was "we want a human drum machine on this one Ndugu". Another lesson in "less is more".
