AUdIoCoUrSeS
Joined: 31 Oct 2002
Posts: 2068
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| Live Workshop - 130305 |
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instinct27651982: sup everybody
chemirastudio: Hello
acousticalweaponsdivision: hello everyone
reynola31: hey all
hoaxwagon: hello
jaminuk: hi everyone
skip_491: hi hoax and jam
rv_1210: hi everyone
instinct27651982: hey
hoaxwagon: good to see you all
mrbisto: hi all
instinct27651982: how's everybody?
skip_491: good here
chemirastudio: doing fine
acousticalweaponsdivision: not bad
hoaxwagon: doin well
reynola31: fine,, thanks what about u?
instinct27651982: im good too.. are u all taking the Sound Engineering course or is anyone else takin the Production Mixing Mastering that i'm taking?
chemirastudio: Sound Engineering
rv_1210: i'm doing digital audio
reynola31: sound engineering
hoaxwagon: sound engineering
acousticalweaponsdivision: i'm sound engineering
instinct27651982: cool, i've taken both sound engineering and the digital audio operations course...good courses y'all..
hoaxwagon: week 2 chris , should i be nervous
mrbisto: Instinct, knows the ropes guys, you could do worse than pick his brains.. (but first)
mrbisto: let me introduce BEN, jaminuk is ben who is the Production Advisor for Music Tech..
jaminuk: hi all
rv_1210: hey ben
chemirastudio: Hello
skip_491: hi ben
acousticalweaponsdivision: hello
reynola31: hi ben
instinct27651982: Hey Ben, its been a long time
rv_1210: <---Rico
jaminuk: hey instinct
jaminuk: and rico!
hoaxwagon: wassup ben
instinct27651982: Rico
instinct27651982: what up
rv_1210: yo man, bloomin yahoo stoopid name
instinct27651982: hehe
jaminuk: too right!
instinct27651982: so chris, who's audiocoursesc?
mrbisto: So guys lets get down to business...
mrbisto: audicoursesc is a robot, ignore it.
hoaxwagon: mmm
mrbisto: So as instinct is here..
skip_491: raises hand i have a question
skip_491: =;
mrbisto: I was hoping you all might have some questions for him (sorry instinct)
mrbisto: skip?
instinct27651982: puttin me on blast..
skip_491: in pro tools
rv_1210: hehe
skip_491: i have a session started
mrbisto: skip..
skip_491: stereo
mrbisto: can that wait for a bit? (sorry)
skip_491: 44.1 and 24 bit
skip_491: ok
mrbisto: lets' do that specific stuff a touch later..
skip_491: sure boss
mrbisto: For now let's get some info form an experienced one, rico also has taken the C&G
rv_1210: and i'm back for more
mrbisto: Worked for you then rico?
rv_1210: improved my knowledge a whole lot
rv_1210: never understood what i was doing before, or why
mrbisto: rico what do you feel pushed you the most, the quantity? or somethng else?
rv_1210: i would have to say the quantity probably, as it was all new to me
rv_1210: was a lot to take in
mrbisto: yeah it really is "full immersion"
mrbisto: These guys get their first set of questions tomorrow.
rv_1210: is everyone doing Music Technology and Recording techniques?
instinct27651982: yeah, i was amazed at the amount of questions but felt like i learned a whole lot after the week was over...the classical music questions especially
hoaxwagon: yep
rv_1210: yeah the classical questions were interesting
x016178: Uh. shoot no.
instinct27651982: somethin i knew very little about before
rv_1210: same here
mrbisto: And some of that classical stuff comes in so handy in many other niche music styles right?
jalevin9: Hi guys.
skip_491: hi jale
jalevin9: Skip Hi,
chemirastudio: Hi jal
hoaxwagon: hey jal
jaminuk: hi
instinct27651982: yeah, the classical questions lay out some fundamentals to recording in general i though
reynola31: hi
instinct27651982: thought
jalevin9: Hey all.
mrbisto: indeed instinct, very fundamental...
rv_1210: hi jale
jalevin9: Hi rv,
mrbisto: the concept of "stereo" is big generally in the field.
jaminuk: absolutely
mrbisto: Stereo micing is something that can be very easily looked over...
mrbisto: without approaching some of the classical stuff..
mrbisto: Now I want to talk about the answering style.
mrbisto: or rather I hope Ben will...?
jaminuk: sure
mrbisto: thanks ben
jaminuk: ok as you're probably aware you will be set a number of questions each week by myself and chris
jaminuk: the questions are very similiar to the style of questions you will see in the final exams
jaminuk: therefore it is in your interest to enter the 'exam' frame of mind from the start
jaminuk: in the exams questions are worth differing number of points
jaminuk: answering in one or two word answers will rarely get you full points
jaminuk: as in many exams a useful method is to work the question into the answer if you see what I mean
jaminuk: Getting into this habit early on is critical
jaminuk: at a later time myself and chris can provide you with 'model' answers to some questions
jaminuk: so you can see the level of detail expected from you
jaminuk: Is this clear?
acousticalweaponsdivision: clear enough
hoaxwagon: yes
chemirastudio: very clear
skip_491: roger that
reynola31: yep
jaminuk: good stuff 
jalevin9: yep.
x016178: klar
mrbisto: Thanks ben.
mrbisto: So tomorrow you will find your first set of study questions.
mrbisto: You will set a set of questions for each module.
mrbisto: Each set may be between 10 to 50 or 60.
mrbisto: Depending on the week, topic and style of question.
mrbisto: In addition, we often set a practical.
mrbisto: Who can tell me what the topics are for this week?
chemirastudio: Wheres my calandar
chemirastudio: Computers
reynola31: computers 1, music 1
acousticalweaponsdivision: says music 1 and computers 1 on mine
mrbisto: good stuff ...
chemirastudio: half marks
chemirastudio: for me
mrbisto: For RT there will be lots of classical questions ..
mrbisto: For MT I think ben gets into definitions?
jaminuk: yes week 1 is definitions
mrbisto: nice. digital audio see the basic principles.
mrbisto: For RT there will be a practical...
mrbisto: hmmm
mrbisto: now, I need to ensure those taking that module all have a stereo editor..
mrbisto: if not please let me know.
mrbisto: The practical will be a classical edit.
x016178: Cubase is a stereo editor right?
jaminuk: yes you can perform editing in cubase
jaminuk: there are some free stereo wave editors available
mrbisto: This practical will see an overlap of the two modules of course...
jaminuk: few here;
jaminuk: http://www.nonags.com/nonags/auedit.html
mrbisto: it will be the following: You are working as part of a team for a classical music FM radio station. There is a forth coming broadcast which is entitled "Classical Music - The Popular Classics". You have been asked to produce an advertisment that will be played in the lead up to the broadcast to entice more listeners to tune in.
acousticalweaponsdivision: this is for RT and MT then?
acousticalweaponsdivision: sorry if i'm being slow here
mrbisto: Yes .. it clearly could sit in either
jaminuk: a lot of praticals have relevance to both but often they will tie in with a weeks topics in one module or the other
jaminuk: links to more editors by the way;http://www.tucows.com/audioedit95_default.html
mrbisto: Maybe as you come across those ben, you could post them the forums.
jaminuk: will do
mrbisto: Tidy
mrbisto: So now le's open the chat up to this practical..
mrbisto: I'm interested to see how we will all go about it.. there will be some rules.. which are:
mrbisto: Must only use the music provided.
mrbisto: Must contain a voice over. (this is up to you to make exciting)
mrbisto: Finished format must be broadcast suitable 128K mp3 in stereo with mono compatibility
mrbisto: Duration bang on 29 secs and no shorter or longer.
mrbisto: Uploaded by Friday to your folder, as a ZIP file, in the correct week.
freshwayne2002: Apologies to everyone for being late tonight!
jalevin9: Hi freshwayne
jaminuk: hi there
chemirastudio: hello
rv_1210: hi wayne
freshwayne2002: Hows it going!
mrbisto: no worries, we are just about to discuss the first practical.
mrbisto: So anyone like to open this up?
chemirastudio: recap on rules
chemirastudio: mrbisto: Must only use the music provided.
mrbisto: Must contain a voice over. (this is up to you to make exciting)
mrbisto: Finished format must be broadcast suitable 128K mp3 in stereo with mono compatibility
mrbisto: Duration bang on 29 secs and no shorter or longer.
mrbisto: Uploaded by Friday to your folder, as a ZIP file, in the correct week.
mrbisto: smiles happily
jalevin9: lol
mrbisto: quiet bunch ben huh?
chemirastudio: radio Advertising I like has movement
jaminuk: zzzzz
rv_1210: lol
jaminuk: 
jalevin9: so, any hints and tips Chris?
mrbisto: none
mrbisto: lol
jaminuk: haha
mrbisto: I'm hoping you lot will have some
instinct27651982: haha
rv_1210: hehe
freshwayne2002: Sorry - is it a radio commercial we have to do? (cringing for being late and missing the important part!)
jalevin9: Thanks for your help.  (
rv_1210: get a good mic!
chemirastudio: yes
mrbisto: oh that's a good tip rv
chemirastudio: radio commercial for classical radio spot
hoaxwagon: listen to some commercials
mrbisto: here we go
mrbisto: good
freshwayne2002: get a good v/o artist!
chemirastudio: barry white
rv_1210: if u can afford one
mrbisto: lol
jaminuk: how about a couple of words to throw in - compression.......cross-fade.....anyone know anything about these?
reynola31: lol
rv_1210: lol
chemirastudio: well be ducking
jaminuk: ducking - good!
mrbisto: ohhh chem you say ducking... my my
chemirastudio: the music
mrbisto: i'm getting excited
chemirastudio: cut the water fowl stuff
hoaxwagon: cross fade no but have seen it as an option
chemirastudio: The music can move panning
skip_491: ya from one channel to the other
mrbisto: chem.. what is your definition of "ducking", this is a great idea.
mrbisto: would you mind explaining it to all?
chemirastudio: voice would trigger the music to dip 3-6 dB
chemirastudio: every time the Vox come in the music would fade down
jaminuk: good stuff chem
mrbisto: nice.. sounds bootiful right guys?
chemirastudio: lets the voVox take center stage
chemirastudio: Voice
hoaxwagon: not just for voice overs huh?
jaminuk: you ever done this with a gate and sidechain chem?
chemirastudio: Fades should be transparent
x016178: Paul Is the cross fade something you would set automatically or do manually?
chemirastudio: Not in this way but triggering a channel yes
chemirastudio: Depends on your gating attack
chemirastudio: time
chemirastudio: I have used pink noise to distort vocals
x016178: What is pink noise?
chemirastudio: White noise is pretty harsh
chemirastudio: pink is I think a different weighting
mrbisto: Let's get back on the topic of the advert..
mrbisto: is everyone clear about ducking?
x016178: no
mrbisto: good..
mrbisto: i was hoping someone would say that
x016178:
mrbisto: I'm sure you have all heard it though...
mrbisto: I ean every radio station uses the technique
mrbisto: pretty much
mrbisto: some are more crude than others
mrbisto: You know you are listen to the station.. and then the presenter starts talking..
mrbisto: immediately the music "ducks" in volume ....
mrbisto: you know?
reynola31: yep
mrbisto: almost as if they have pulled the faders down ..
x016178: yes, which is what we've been calling cross fading??
jaminuk: no x-fading is different
mrbisto: maybe.. but that's wrong.
mrbisto: the sensation of the faders being pulled down is termed Ducking
mrbisto: the music ducks
skip_491: can you only do this with a vox?
x016178: I'm wichu
mrbisto: like ducking your head
mrbisto: hehe
jaminuk: anything you like skip
mrbisto: The point being it is on auto-pilot
mrbisto: therefore automated
instinct27651982: yeah skip, you can trigger drums to duck a guitar if u wanted
jalevin9: Is this done with a gate?
jaminuk: can be done with a gate yes
hoaxwagon: by a compressor
jalevin9: ok
mrbisto: gate yes... (working upside down) or compressor..
mrbisto: but a compressor is not the one to go for in this practical.
mrbisto: firstly, who doe snot know what a gate is? or does?
acousticalweaponsdivision: not 100% about what a gate is
mrbisto: it is a swtich, if you like.. which is either on or off.
hoaxwagon: some what familiar
skip_491: cuts the frequency off at a pre determind spot
mrbisto: like a light swtich
jaminuk: if you're a guitarist you may have come across gates on fx units
mrbisto: a simple gate is a switch
mrbisto: on or off
chemirastudio: open and closes at a pre set volume
mrbisto: if a big signal comes along, the gate will open..
mrbisto: if a small signal comes along it will stay shut..
mrbisto: that is important to get first
mrbisto: you know?
jalevin9: yep
mrbisto: in its most basic form
acousticalweaponsdivision: right, so big signals would trigger the gate and adjust the volume?
mrbisto: no
mrbisto: they would just be allowed to pass through
jaminuk: small signals will MUTE the output in other words
jaminuk: i.e. no sound is allowed out
mrbisto: think aboutt a dog trying to open a garden gate.. lol
mrbisto: big dog can push through
mrbisto: small dog, won't happen
jaminuk: lol
mrbisto: not large enough to open the gate
jaminuk: apart form jack russells
jalevin9: so we set the level, yeah?
mrbisto: clear so far?
mrbisto: lol
freshwayne2002: good example!
acousticalweaponsdivision: right so if the signal is too weak it doesnt get through
mrbisto: yes
jaminuk: exactly
acousticalweaponsdivision: with you now
mrbisto: groovy we have arrived at point 1.
x016178: Great. What's on the other side of the gate?
mrbisto: good question
jaminuk: the road!
rv_1210: lol
chemirastudio: the duck
mrbisto: lol
mrbisto: the duck lol
mrbisto: no not a duck
chemirastudio: oh
mrbisto: the other side of the gate is the signal...
mrbisto: but someone mentioned
hoaxwagon: can the gate be adjusted to open for a smaller dog?
mrbisto: we can "set" the level of the signal which triggers the gate to open.
mrbisto: by using the dial known as the?
skip_491: threshold?
mrbisto: there we go skip good.
jaminuk: booty!
jaminuk: can i step in with an example here?
skip_491: wooooooooooooooohoooooooooooooo i got one
mrbisto: yes please ben.
jaminuk: ok
jaminuk: in studio situations
jaminuk: when you're recording a vocalist
jaminuk: they'll often be listening to the 'backing track' on headphones
jaminuk: now studio mics are quite sensitive
jaminuk: so when the singer is not singing
jaminuk: the mic will still pick up some 'bleed' from the headphones
jaminuk: as well as maybe the singer breathing, spluttering etc
jaminuk: a gate could be used in this example so the threshold is ABOVE the level of the headphone bleed
skip_491: -20db?
jaminuk: but the threshold is set so that everytime the vocalist sings the gate opens
jalevin9: So we have to set the threshold just right not to cut off the intro vox so to speak?
jaminuk: skip - values vary from application to application
jaminuk: exactly
jaminuk: now...
x016178: my universe is expanding.
mrbisto: lol
jaminuk: you may ask whats the point as a little bleed won't hurt?
mrbisto: busts a move
jaminuk: well, gating, which is known as a 'processor' incidentally
skip_491: lol
jaminuk: is often the first step in an audio chain
jaminuk: other steps such as compression, eq and reverb come AFTER gating
jaminuk: so if we gate the signal correctly at source
jaminuk: then later processes and effects won't effect unwanted sounds (i.e. breathing, bleed etc)
jaminuk: you all following this?
freshwayne2002: excellent stuff!
skip_491: yes
jalevin9: yep
acousticalweaponsdivision: with you so far
reynola31: yep
hoaxwagon: yep
x016178: OK
jaminuk: good this is fundamental
chemirastudio: Good here
jaminuk: anyhow, back to gating in context of the practical...chris?
mrbisto: sure, good one ben
mrbisto: You can "control" the way the gate opens or closes.
mrbisto: You can have the gate open quickly or slowely.
mrbisto: Correspondingly you can have it closes slowely or quickly.
skip_491: attack?
jalevin9: release
mrbisto: yes skip good
mrbisto: yes jal
mrbisto: in addition
skip_491: high ^5 jale
mrbisto: You can "force" the gate to remain open for a perdiod of time
skip_491: hold?
chemirastudio: hold
mrbisto: period of time. with the HOLD function
mrbisto: good chem
jaminuk: good bunch this lot!
mrbisto: yup
mrbisto: keen beavers
mrbisto: now back to ducking..
mrbisto: all gates, should I say most have additional inputs
mrbisto: as weel as the standard IN and OUT, they have something else called a?
skip_491: external key?
mrbisto: wow
mrbisto: high five skip
skip_491: >:)heheheeheh..rlof
jalevin9: go skip
skip_491: ^5 boss
jaminuk: sometimes you will see this called sidechain
mrbisto: if you think about the name, it kinda makes sense what it will do.
mrbisto: it allows us with a KEY into the main signal, using an external source.
mrbisto: In easylanguage this mean we can open the gate for the dog using a different signal to the dog.
jaminuk: lol
skip_491: lol
mrbisto: So for example....
mrbisto: we could route a bass drum into the key input...
mrbisto: then every time the bass drum played, it would open the gate and allow the signal through, which could be anything.
mrbisto: is that clear?
acousticalweaponsdivision: yes
hoaxwagon: once it is in our editor , do we duck with yeshardware?
skip_491: yes
chemirastudio: yes
jalevin9: with you.
mrbisto: now this is not exactly what we need for our classical edit..
mrbisto: becuase we need the inverse...
mrbisto: we need the gate to SHUT (or partially) when a signal appears in the KEY
mrbisto: this is where the DUCK functions comes in, it inverts the way the gate operates ..
hoaxwagon: sorry got ahead of myself
mrbisto: So rather than being shut by default it is open..
mrbisto: clear?
x016178: yes.
jalevin9: yes
hoaxwagon: yes
skip_491: yes
chemirastudio: yes
freshwayne2002: yep
reynola31: yep
acousticalweaponsdivision: yes
mrbisto: good.. so back to our radio station...
mrbisto: when the presenter uses their mic..
jalevin9: so we have to set it accurately?
mrbisto: this will trigger the music to duck...
mrbisto: because we have fed the KEY input from the presenters mic..
mrbisto: and in the main IN and OUT of the gate is the program material.
mrbisto: get it?
chemirastudio: yes
freshwayne2002: ok here
hoaxwagon: yes
skip_491: sure
mrbisto: By adjusting the attack and release, we can get a smooth fade in and fade out.. of the music..
jalevin9: ok
mrbisto: And that's that.
mrbisto: ducks out of the way
x016178: Chris question.
skip_491: chopped duck anyone ? lol
jalevin9: lol
jaminuk:
x016178: I am trying to imagine the drum scenario....
x016178: Would the guitar drown out the drums. Hence the guitar be the key>
mrbisto: This is a different scenario all together brent.. are you thinking about Live Sound?
x016178: Ben I think mentioned a scenario about using a bass in ducking...?
jaminuk: hold on let me look
skip_491: jam >>>scrolls back lol
mrbisto: I think ben used an example to comment on how the threshold functions?
jaminuk: lol
instinct27651982: i mentioned something about guitar and kick, i would use the kick as the key so the guitar ducks a little on kick hits to give a little pumpin effect
instinct27651982: for the guitar
jaminuk: good instinct
jaminuk: this is often done on bass
instinct27651982: makes it more dynamic
jaminuk: listen to 'house' tunes and you will hear this a lot
instinct27651982: yeah on bass aswell
jaminuk: bass guitar/synth 'ducking' when kick comes in
jaminuk: ducking example off the top of my head
jaminuk: "new bassline for jose" by international pony
jaminuk: there is a faux radio presenter section in the middle which pulls down the volume a la FM radio
x016178: Aha. Otherwise the bass would get lost. Saves from having to mix everything down after recording...?
jaminuk: with bass and kick they are i the same freq range
jaminuk: on each others toes to make an analogy
jaminuk: so the bass makes room for the kick
chemirastudio: Frequncy ducking too
jaminuk: can i just present a creative example of sidechain gating
jaminuk: ?
instinct27651982: yeah man
skip_491: sure
freshwayne2002: please do
jaminuk: ok two different scenarios here
jaminuk: first up, imagine a hi hat loop sent to the sidechain of a gate
jaminuk: and a guitar/synth track sent to the normal inputs of a gate
jaminuk: this would give you a rythmic 'chopping' of the synth/guitar in time with the hats
jaminuk: secondly
jaminuk: imagine you are sound design/engineer for a film/tv series/radio
jaminuk: you need to replicate the sound of people talking over CB or similiar
jaminuk: now CBs/radios are noisy
jaminuk: so what you could do is send the voice to the sidechain of a gate
jaminuk: and some 'noise' to the 'normal inputs'
jaminuk: when the voice triggers the gate
jaminuk: noise is let through as well
jaminuk: so you get that military style noisy CB communication
jaminuk: that clear?
jalevin9: gotcha.
reynola31: yep
skip_491: clear
freshwayne2002: bang on!
acousticalweaponsdivision: right
chemirastudio: clear here
jaminuk: excellent!
mrbisto: Nice one..
x016178: cool
mrbisto: Now guys this talk of gates... is not actually the point of the practical..
mrbisto: Though as you wil see the Live Workshops go to where we go, if you know what i mean.
freshwayne2002: vital background stuff though!
chemirastudio: key
mrbisto: But don't feel you have to duck, you practical..
skip_491: lol
chemirastudio: punny
jalevin9: lol
jaminuk: boom boom!
skip_491: yes chem lol
mrbisto: That's the point, of course it is vital, but there are many other important things for consideration.
mrbisto: Not least levels,
mrbisto: Edits
mrbisto: Reverb tails
mrbisto: zero crossing points..
jaminuk: very important!
skip_491: wahts zero crossing pts?
mrbisto: one sec
mrbisto: is there anyone without a microphone?
mrbisto: As the practical requires this voice over.. ok no one shouted.. good.
mrbisto: Ok moving on..
mrbisto: anyone want to answer skip?
mrbisto: Zero Crossing .. ?
skip_491: /:)hmmm? no answer:(
acousticalweaponsdivision: i'm not sure what that is either
jaminuk: <tumbleweed blows through room>
jalevin9: Are these to do with edits on wav files?
chemirastudio: Point where the wve file crosses the zero point
skip_491: lol@tumble weed
freshwayne2002: whats a tumble weed? Is that a type of gate?
freshwayne2002: lol
jaminuk: you all seen digital audio in an editor?
reynola31: lol
skip_491: lol
skip_491: rlof
instinct27651982: haha
jaminuk: lol @ wayne
skip_491: yah jam
jaminuk: ok if you've seen audio in an editor
jaminuk: you'll see that it is like a graph
jaminuk: with an axis running through the middle
jaminuk: this is known as '0' or 'dc'
jaminuk: you all seen this 'axis' in digital audio?
freshwayne2002: yep
jalevin9: yes
skip_491: yes
chemirastudio: yes
hoaxwagon: yep
acousticalweaponsdivision: yep
jaminuk: ok
jaminuk: when we have a signal at DC
jaminuk: the speaker is at rest
skip_491: ahhh i didnt kow that
jaminuk: if you need visual aid look here;
jaminuk: http://www.alarrecordingstudio.com/immagini/gloss/zero_crossing_no_zoom.gif
jaminuk: ok
jaminuk: so when we are creating edits
jaminuk: we need to ensure that when we go from one signal to the other we cut off at the zero corssing point
chemirastudio: no clicks or pops
skip_491: wowwwwwwwwwwww
x016178: ohmigod this is so good.
jaminuk: skip - think of DC as the speaker being at rest - above or below the line is the speaker pushing in/out
reynola31: gotcha
acousticalweaponsdivision: aah so when each one is at DC zero
freshwayne2002: nice one! i didn't have a clue of that!
hoaxwagon: i get it
jaminuk: excellent - so if we don't observe zero crossings
skip_491: thats great but
jaminuk: and we go from one point to the other
skip_491: how do you switch at that moment
chemirastudio: click pop
jaminuk: then the speaker jumps to go from one point to the other
jaminuk: ok now we look at fades
chemirastudio: bad
jaminuk: a fade takes a signal to or from silence
jaminuk: where silence is aka DC or '0'
skip_491: with ya so far
jaminuk: a 'normal' fade means we fade one signal out to DC and then introduce another signal from DC
jaminuk: this ensures no popping or clicking
jalevin9: so we crossfade?
jaminuk: ok crossfading
jaminuk: this is where we get 'clever'
jaminuk: if you've been to a club playing dance music
skip_491: ya
jaminuk: you'll know that the DJ ensures that the music never stops
skip_491: this is the part i wana hear
jaminuk: one song fades into another
jaminuk: now crossfading is a similiar concept
jaminuk: imagine we have 2 pieces of classical music
jaminuk: lets fade the first one out
jaminuk: and the second one in
jaminuk: this would be a normal fade
jaminuk: but if we then 'overlap' the audio files
jaminuk: as in a dj mixing 2 songs together
jaminuk: we end up with a seamless transition
jalevin9: Brilliant!
skip_491: thats kool
jaminuk: think of the X as one fading in and the other fading out
jaminuk: if you have multitrack editors
acousticalweaponsdivision: its funny the things you use without actually knowing what they are called
jaminuk: such as cool edit/audition/cubase/sonar/dp/pro tools/sonar etc
jaminuk: then you can easily create cross fades
skip_491: thats true ac
jaminuk: in cubase it is very simple
jaminuk: just drag two files on top of each other, select them both and press the 'X' key
jaminuk: hey presto instant cross fade
skip_491: no kiddin all that time
jaminuk: you all follow that
jaminuk: ?
skip_491: yes
freshwayne2002: sure did
skip_491: shhhhhhhhh so simple
reynola31: yep
chemirastudio: check that!
jalevin9: yep.
x016178: yep
hoaxwagon: yep
jaminuk: great!
mrbisto: Hope they remember it all ben for next week huh?
jaminuk: lol
x016178: Is there a standard to how fast you crossfade?
jaminuk: no
jaminuk: there are different 'strengths'
freshwayne2002: so is it best when editing to select two zero crossing points to delete between as a rule?
mrbisto: "standards" with anything audio, do not seem to exist brent.
jaminuk: wayne - if using fading then zero crossing are not too important
freshwayne2002: k
jaminuk: the fades start and end at DC
jaminuk: however if you are doing a straight edit then yes
jalevin9: so we use wither linear/slow/fast crossfades depending on the audio we are editing?
jaminuk: for instance
jaminuk: jalevin - absolutely
jaminuk: if you've got a drum track and you want to create a loop
jaminuk: then you dont really want fading
jaminuk: so you pick the best zero crossings available to you
jaminuk: this stops those tell tale clicks at the start of the loop
mrbisto: incidentally some software does that for you.. i.e. putting a zero point in the sample.
jaminuk: and many pieces of software have a 'snap to zero' setting
jaminuk: ensuring that you can't make the wrong decision
jaminuk: this is of course cheating
skip_491: good trick
mrbisto: and facist
jaminuk: lol
jalevin9: snap to 0 is now disabled in my editor.
mrbisto: lol
jalevin9: lol
freshwayne2002: <theres that tumbleweed again>
jaminuk: haha
x016178: I was trying to edit a recording from an lp with lots of cracks. Since I didn't have any 0 points often when that occured, trying to cut it manually, it seemed the bet thing was to cut it to try at the same heighth to match another signal of a similar height. Without a crackle editor what would you have done there...?
jaminuk: look for 0 points or fade outs
jaminuk: personally
x016178: And if there were no 0 ponits?
mrbisto: create them
x016178: aaaaaaaah.
jaminuk: there are always 0 points somewhere
mrbisto: yup
jalevin9: use your magnifying tool to get the best view of these 0 points.
jaminuk: absolutely
mrbisto: Ok..
mrbisto: let's move on..
skip_491: good tip on magnifier
jaminuk: brb
jalevin9: ta.
mrbisto: I need some info from all of you.. (please e-mail me this) about which modules you are taking..
mrbisto: many of you are taking both modules.
mrbisto: some only one...
acousticalweaponsdivision: ok
jalevin9: will do
skip_491: then there's me huh? lol
mrbisto: I need to know this this week because we have to enter you for the exams...
freshwayne2002: k
mrbisto: IF, you are totally excited and now wish to take BOTH, also let me know so we can upgrade you asap..
mrbisto: clear?
x016178: yes.
hoaxwagon: yes
acousticalweaponsdivision: yes
freshwayne2002: crystal!
jalevin9: yep, I'll take two please. lol
skip_491: lol yep
mrbisto: Thanks... please include full details, ful namne full addy.. etc etc...
skip_491: jale your gonna get swamped lol
mrbisto: hehe
mrbisto: Now...
jalevin9: lovin it.lol
skip_491: seeeeeeee lol
x016178: To be clear there is only one discussion sms forum for both courses. This one. yeah?
acousticalweaponsdivision: heh one at a time for me i think
mrbisto: no.. two brent..
skip_491: rlof
mrbisto: three in fact
mrbisto: there are three modules running
hoaxwagon: lol
x016178: I'm in both. Have I been playing hookie on the other one?
mrbisto: http://www.audiocourses.com/forum-218.html RT
skip_491: howlin
mrbisto: http://www.audiocourses.com/forum-219.html MT
mrbisto: http://www.audiocourses.com/forum-220.html DA
mrbisto: ok?
jalevin9: ok.
skip_491: savin this to my fav's check em out later
hoaxwagon: ok
reynola31: k
chemirastudio: i think
mrbisto: So if you are just taking MT you ignore the others and so and so.
mrbisto: now skips you were asking something earlier?
skip_491: oh yah
skip_491: bout my stereo signal
jaminuk: back
skip_491: in pro tools
skip_491: wave back jam
jalevin9: BRB
skip_491: i set up a new session in stereo
skip_491: 44.1 24 bit
skip_491: then set up new track in stereo
skip_491: and i only have mono signal how come?
skip_491: what did i do wrong there?
jaminuk: are you creating new track
jaminuk: ctrl-shift-n
skip_491: yes
jaminuk: and then selecting stereo audio track from the pop up
skip_491: nothin
skip_491: it dont work
jaminuk: what version of PT?
skip_491: ok i got it
skip_491: 6.4
jaminuk: ok
jaminuk: and what are you recording?
skip_491: voice
jaminuk: ok
jaminuk: what is probably happening is that the stereo track is looking for 2 inputs (i.e. mic/line 1-2)
jaminuk: but you are only actually feeding into one input
jaminuk: is this right?
skip_491: yes
jaminuk: ok
skip_491: and that is what it wants
skip_491: how can i avoid that
jaminuk: with voice you nearly ALWAYS record mono
jaminuk: you can still pan etc
skip_491: yah but it wont pan
jaminuk: but you only record in mono as you don't need the spatial information
jaminuk: it won't pan?
jaminuk: is it showing the pan control in the mixer window?
skip_491: no to pan
mrbisto: you need mono>stereo input setup
skip_491: yes to control in mixer window
jaminuk: ok what is your output on the channel set to?
jaminuk: analogue 1-2?
skip_491: yes to analogue 1 and 2
skip_491: chris idont kow what you mean?
mrbisto: I mean are you sure, as ben states, that a stereo IN to stereo OUT has pan functionality?
jaminuk: is the pan fader there or greyed out
jaminuk: ?
skip_491: pan is there and i'm panned to zero
skip_491: or a hundered percent dont change
jaminuk: hmmm
jaminuk: so if you pan hard right you still get it in both speakers?
skip_491: its like its not there
skip_491: wait a min
skip_491: cant hear it in the right channel
jaminuk: in left?
skip_491: can hear only in left headset
jaminuk: right so outputs are back to front
jaminuk: M-Box?
skip_491: no using oo2
skip_491: input back channel one
skip_491: phantom power
instinct27651982: weird.. what about if u record it 16bit?
jaminuk: well if you swap the earphones round
jaminuk: then the pan is correct?
skip_491: havent tried 16
skip_491: yes to bein correct i hear the left channel
jalevin9: speakers set up the wrong way skip?
skip_491: no
skip_491: i'm stummped
instinct27651982: its different but i've noticed on my studio computer that if i play a mono 24 bit file in winamp it will only output to the left speaker.. ofcourse this doesnt happen in my sequencer nuendo but still weird
instinct27651982: maybe some drivers?
jaminuk: instinct - probably - a lot of audio stuff looks at left output first and dual monos it if in mono
jaminuk: but winamp?
skip_491: do you no if pro tools have version higher than 6.4?
jaminuk: 6.7
jaminuk: with beat detective!!
skip_491: yes i'm trying to model left channel
skip_491: with voice one
instinct27651982: winamp, i use it to play mp3s and clicked on a wav file once and noticed it...it doesnt mean anything to me but i find it weird
jaminuk: probably driver issue
jaminuk: maybe it doesnt like 24 bit mono wavs
skip_491: so i problaly need to update
jaminuk: i know it bounces mono mp3s to dual mono
skip_491: yah maybe not jam
jaminuk: skip - problem shouldnt be there really
jaminuk: although updates are always worth it
skip_491: ok i thought i was going crazy
jaminuk: apart from cubase SX 3 X-(
jaminuk: lol
jalevin9: lol
skip_491: lol
instinct27651982: ben..what happened in sx3?
skip_491: have had prbs with cubase also
rv_1210: was just thinkin the same
jaminuk: bugs bugs bugs
jaminuk: not having a go at steinberg here
rv_1210: lol
jaminuk: <disclaimer>
mrbisto: hehe
skip_491: lol
skip_491: rlof
skip_491: rlof
rv_1210: =))
mrbisto: Time to start shipping out people.
jaminuk: but they seem to use the first few versions of any software as beta versios
instinct27651982: haha, im stickin with Nuendo 2, not really wanting to update to 3..
instinct27651982: it works fine for me so why upgrade right?
jaminuk: 3 is excellent
jaminuk: but the bugs
jaminuk: oh my god the bugs
jaminuk: with steinberg x.2 is the one to go for always
jaminuk: it takes that long for it to settle
skip_491: yah aint that the truth
jalevin9: Just put cubase 5 into XP with some midi issues!
jaminuk: roll on 3.2.0.1..2.3.4.2.2.5.6.1.7.1
jalevin9: Latency I think.
skip_491: rlof
skip_491: rlof
rv_1210: lol
jaminuk: oooh, vst in xp has some issues
skip_491: shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
jaminuk: hey jalevin is it midi latency?
acousticalweaponsdivision: cubase 5 also seems to conflict with reason i noticed
jalevin9: Well, I downloaded a file...
jalevin9: from steinberg,
jalevin9: Gonna try it tonight.
jalevin9: I use the emu 1212m
jalevin9: and I'm getting delays.
jaminuk: you using <emulated> drivers?
jalevin9: Yes.
jaminuk: for MIDI
jaminuk: ok that could be the problem
jalevin9: how so?
jalevin9: Mros? is the download.
jaminuk: without getting too technical emulated drivers are the concession to microsoft direct x
jaminuk: they cause all kinds of problems
jaminuk: but i'm not saying that is your problem
jaminuk: but there is a chance
skip_491: thats it jam i think
skip_491: turn off the direct x
chemirastudio: gotta take off later class
hoaxwagon: thanx Ben, Chris and all, peace out> <
jaminuk: cheers
skip_491: bye chem
mrbisto: Thanks for coming!
jalevin9: Thanks all.....
skip_491: hey jam
jaminuk: jalevin
jaminuk: http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=emulated+midi&meta=
mrbisto: Time to wind it down anyway people
freshwayne2002: cheers gang!
jaminuk: yes skip
jaminuk: cheers wayne
mrbisto: Same time next week.
jalevin9: Thanks Ben.
skip_491: does that mean when i get and error
acousticalweaponsdivision: right, time to eat
acousticalweaponsdivision: see you guys later
skip_491: called audio being used by antoher application
jalevin9: See ya all later!
rv_1210: cya next week all, enjoy it
reynola31: bye all
mrbisto: cheers
jaminuk: cheers
skip_491: direct x and emulated drivers are conflicting?
skip_491: bye rey
jaminuk: its possible
skip_491: and jale
jaminuk: is this sx or vst?
jalevin9: vst.
skip_491: sx
jaminuk: hmmm
skip_491: no no no
skip_491: aardvark q10
jaminuk: more often this is audio rather than midi
skip_491: mmm
jalevin9: wonder if the mros will fix it?
jaminuk: i have to confess i haven't used VST constantly for about 5 years
skip_491: what do you think of aardvark goin outta bussiness
jaminuk: mros may but i wouldn't be 100%
jaminuk: well
jaminuk: these things happen unfortunately
jalevin9: fingers crossed.
jaminuk: there are some very competitive people out there
instinct27651982: im off people...see u next week!
skip_491: what bout all the people stuck with there stuff
jaminuk: cheers instinct
instinct27651982: bye guys
skip_491: nite instinct
mrbisto: see ya
jaminuk: it sucks, it really does
skip_491: nite bristo
jaminuk: thing is with soundcards
jalevin9: Right, gotta go see you guys.
skip_491: bisto too lol
jaminuk: there are only a few you can trust
jaminuk: or rather trust they wont go out of business anytime soon
skip_491: which ones would that be lol
jaminuk: well, from a business point of view
jaminuk: creative, rme, motu, m-audio
jaminuk: maybe a few others
jaminuk: echo
jaminuk: terratec
skip_491: what you think bout the firebox?
jaminuk: rme?
skip_491: yes
jaminuk: haven't used it but from what i've heard amazing
skip_491: i have one coming this week
jaminuk: RME really are the pinnacle of PC audio interfeces
jaminuk: i'm very very jealous
skip_491: becuze they quit supporting the firestation
jaminuk: i'm saving my pennies for one
skip_491: lol
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